Ron: Welcome to the season two finale of Stereo Geeks. Today we’ll be discussing Shang-Chi and the Legend of the Ten Rings. I'm Ron.
Mon: And I'm Mon.
We’ll be dividing this episode into two halves. The first half is the non-spoiler review, and the second half will have the spoilers in it. Not to worry, we will signpost it before.
[Music]
Ron: So, Shang-Chi…
Mon: The movie that got us back in theaters.
Ron: Because Marvel and Disney didn't give us a choice. But anyway, we did it. The first movie in 18 months. But yeah, we had a good time.
Mon: We had fun.
Ron: And also, let's not forget, this is the first fully Asian cast, Marvel film. So, this is a big deal.
Mon: Yeah. And we've heard about it for a long time—the legend of Simu Liu and his tweet about taking the shot. So honestly there's been a lot of hype about this. And, he's a Canada boy, so extra hype because that's where we are.
Ron: Exactly! Canadians are all going mad—we’ve got one of our own as a Marvel superhero. It's a big deal. So what is Shang-Chi about?
Well, it's a pretty standard Marvel story. We have a young man who could be doing better with his life. Turns out he can. And he goes on an epic adventure and saves the world. You know how it is. And then there's more saving to do.
Mon: Yeah, it pretty much follows the regular Marvel formula. We will go into story structure later on, but it is very much what you would expect from a Marvel movie experience.
There's lots of action, quite a lot of comedy—a bit more than we expected maybe?
Ron: Yes.
Mon: Beautiful cinematography, awesome costumes and the soundtrack as well.
Ron: So, who’s in our cast?
So, we’ve got Simu Liu playing Shang-Chi. We’ve got Tony Leung playing Wenwu. We got Aquafina as Katy, Meng'er Zhang as Xialing, Fala Chen as Li and Michelle Yeoh as Ying Nan. There are also a few cameos here and there that we don't want to mention in this section, but we will get to it later.
So this is written and directed by Destin Daniel Cretton and the screenplay is by Dave Callaham and Andrew Lanham.
Mon: I have to say this is Marvel, again, taking a chance on relatively inexperienced creators, which is great because you have a whole new perspective on making a Marvel film. And it does have a fresh look to it.
Ron: Absolutely. I feel like as much as this is very obviously a Marvel film because we're told that, there were so many aspects of it that felt different. We will talk about the fight scenes, but from the opening section it doesn't feel very much like a Marvel film. You do get a very wondrous, fantastical look; the cinematography is quite different. The fighting style is different. And I kind of liked that.
Mon: This film really feels like a fantasy, but the formula is very much the Marvel formula.
Ron: Yes, that's true.
Mon: So the look of it, I felt, was very unique.
Ron: Yeah, and I think I really like that.
Mon: Let’s talk about the plot.
Ron: Yes. So we don't want to give away too much…
Mon: Because in a Marvel film and any information is all information.
Ron: And we just watched a trailer, right now for the first time, and it gave away so much. And it's just so frustrating. I hate when Marvel does that. Everyone’s going to watch your movie, Marvel, don't put so much stuff in it. Because the plot is unexpected. Most of the solo Marvel films—and this is technically a solo Marvel film, this is Shang-Chi’s first introduction. But he's not the sole protagonist, there are a lot of characters here, and they all have unique arcs throughout the tale. I liked that.
Mon: Yeah, me too.
I like the fact that he's surrounded by a lot of people all of whom are characters in their own right. And I think with a lot of these comic book properties, an ensemble-forward look is better. Because if you read comic books, yeah, it may just be about Batman, but the whole world of Batman is brought to life by Catwoman, and the Robins, and Alfred and blah blah blah. And same with the Marvel Universe where you might read a comic book, essentially titled Shang-Chi, but the world doesn't come alive, unless Shang-Chi is actually interacting with other people…
Ron: Yes.
Mon: …his family, his friends, that's where the stakes come in. That's where the personality comes in. So, I like that about this film a lot. And the plot, sort of, goes into the personal angle. Where there is the weight of the world hanging on the shoulders, and not just one person’s shoulders but several, but there is a personal story to be told. There are personal demons to be defeated, and I really like that angle.
Ron: Yeah. It's really difficult to actually talk about the plot without giving away too many spoilers but it's really about family and how these can be complicated. But it's not like differences can’t be put aside when you have a shared goal.
Shang-Chi kinda starts off the film as a loser—you don't usually get to see that. Most of the Marvel characters have had a very good idea of where they're going. This is not Iron Man, this is more like Peter Parker. Yeah, I think, Peter Parker if he was older.
I got a little bit of Kim's Convenience, the vibe from that with Shang-Chi. He and Kate are not living up to their potential. And then this huge adventure happens where they realize what else they can do with themselves.
Mon: Honestly, the start of the film was like a microcosm of the millennial experience, where we want to do great things, but we can't seem to move out of our parents’ basements. It is very relatable and I think that was the best way for us to be introduced to Katy, to Shang-Chi, because that's just the way we are right now, so we need to see heroes like us.
Ron: Yeah, absolutely.
And I love the fact that they get to go on fantastical adventure. I feel like as adults we don't get enough movies where people like us do that. It's always, you know, young teenagers, they get to go to magical worlds and see new things, experience new things. Us, we just go back to our desk jobs. But I really like the fact about Shang-Chi that you don't just go do this in the real world. And if that's it, your work is done, move on. No, they get to do a lot more than that, they get to go to places, they get to see different things, and it changes them, but they also get to save the world.
I was actually thrown by the fantastical elements. I did not expect them, obviously, because you and I did not watch a single trailer. We did not look at a single gif; we avoided everything as much as possible. Which is really really hard, but we did it.
Mon: Also, I have to say that I don't have much of a connection with Shang-Chi in the comics. I was going in completely unaware of the mythos around this character.
Ron: Well, what I had read didn't have as much as the film had.
Mon: Oh, interesting.
Ron: It was very based in America, that kind of thing. So I was not expecting soo much fantasy. I kind of liked it, if you like that stuff.
What I also liked was the humor. Okay Awkwafina being there, obviously, you expect that there's going to be some humor. She is a comedian, but even Shang-Chi and other characters that you don't expect kind of bringing that humor—and it’s not that in your face like, ‘haha I'm trying to make you laugh’, that kind of thing. It's dry wit or sarcasm. There was a lot of sarcasm in this movie, I liked it. So, yeah, that was fun.
I feel like sometimes the Marvel films, they can become a little bit weighty and, you know, we have had Endgame and things have been very heavy in the Marvel universe. But I liked that with this it was just like, you know what we’ll just be a little funny. It balances out some of the more dramatic elements because there are a lot of those.
Mon: I suppose we shouldn't have been surprised that there would be a lot of humor, considering the two leading actors of this film.
That being said, the entire film had this vibrant, colorful, optimistic feeling to it, which honestly has been missing from comic book films in general. So again, this may be playing into a newer, happier outlook.
Ron: Yeah I think so. Like, we saw with Black Widow as well. We were surprised at how much humour there ended up being. It's good because these aer superheroes—by dint of being superheroes, it is a bit ridiculous.
Mon: And also we're not laughing at the characters we’re laughing with them, You're laughing at the situations they're in, in a way that we would react. Because, honestly, half the things that they go through, it's completely understandable that if you don't laugh to start crying. [Both laugh]
Ron: There are probably going to be some comparisons with Black Panther because stylistically and visually Black Panther was very different. And I think Shang-Chi, also does that.
Where there's a little bit more relatability with this film, is that Shang-Chi is based kind of in America for a little while. And his friend Katy, played by Aquafina, she's very much an Asian-American. So you definitely get that inroad from that angle. And it helps. But I don't feel like they were explaining things too much.
Mon: I felt the opposite.
Ron: Okay.
Mon: I felt like there was a lot of exposition in this film. Maybe even more than I would expect from a comic book adaptation. What they did with this film, however, is that they broke it up into pieces, so that you get a piece of the story and then you get the exposition, but that for me affected the pacing.
Ron: Oh wow, really.
Mon: Yeah, that was the biggest issue with me. Where you have the three act structure, but with each act, they're still telling you more information and that information is very very important for the actual story. I'm not entirely sure how they could have broken it up, or pared it down. The film didn't feel long, but it’s just that every interjection of exposition, sort of took me out of the moment where maybe we needed a little bit more action or a little bit more emotion. Instead we have to learn something completely different. Which is strange because every Marvel film does have exposition. I mean, every comic book film in general will have exposition. But I felt like, this movie, by trying to do exposition differently, added in a little too much of it.
Because the story is also very different. The world that they're building is very different, it's very new. With Black Panther they didn't really do that much exposition, because it's very much, this needs to be done. This is a tool you need to get to the next step, whereas here, if we don't get that exposition we don't understand the stakes.
Ron: I really didn't feel like there was exposition at all.
Mon: Let's agree to disagree.
Ron: Because I felt like there were quite a few flashbacks and we kind of get hints. Then later on we actually do get to see certain incidents, and you're like, ‘oh okay, I have a feeling this might be what happened’. I think there was one scene near the end, it wasn't a very long scene, but I felt like that may have been something that they wanted to show, instead of tell. But there was something about the gravitas of how it was conveyed to the audience that I felt like maybe it was better to not have seen it, and just feel the anguish of the character telling the other characters and the audience what had happened. But otherwise in general, I didn't actually think about exposition that much at all, which is interesting.
Mon: Maybe it's because I enjoyed the fight scene so much.
Ron: Oh, the fight scenes were to die for.
Mon: They were glorious. Strangely this film actually top-ended a lot of the fight scenes.
Ron: Yes, I love that.
Mon: There were three or four back to back fight scenes in the first act. We hardly know these people and they're just fighting, fighting, fighting, and you know it was so good. It was so energetic, so fast paced.
There were quite a few fights which made me sit back and wonder, ‘how did they even film this?’
Ron: Yeah.
Mon: I get it’s CGI and the wonder of filmic magic in the 21st century blah blah, but it still captured that fantastical notion of film magic. Because honestly, I just couldn't understand how they did what they did.
Ron: It wasn't just the angles, which were really good and it showed you the way they were fighting, the expressions and everything. But I think that was something about the way the fluid camera work put us kind of in the fight itself. That's what I really really loved.
There were a lot of times when I was like, ‘how's the camera actually capturing this?’ Even if you were to do CGI or edit it, it didn't feel like that—it felt like one fluid motion. We haven't seen anything like that in the Marvel films. Thinking back to The Winter Soldier, the fight scenes were really organic feeling; you could feel the punch through the screen. Like Captain America was getting hurt. And those felt really good, but this is on a totally different level. It just looked so beautiful. And when they talk about fight choreography, you really felt like you were watching fight choreography in this movie.
And what I really loved about the fight scenes is that they have a purpose. And it's not just winning battles. They have an emotional purpose in this film and I really love that. I did not expect that to happen. And yeah, I thought that was great.
Mon: Yeah, I absolutely loved it. And it was a very different look, which again comes down to the fact that you have different kind of creator and a different eye behind the lens, so they're going to bring a new and refreshing perspective, which is what we have been saying Marvel needs. You don't need to be at the 25th film to get here.
Ron: Yeah.
Mon: But it's taken that long.
Ron: It is a little bit frustrating that we've had so many films with white male protagonists, and now we finally have Black Panther, we have Captain Marvel, we have Black Widow, Shang-Chi. It's taken a really long time. But I think these are the four films that really stand out in the Marvel canon.
Shang-Chi is really good. I really really enjoyed it. I thought it was great.
So, I think we’ve kind of danced around the cinematography thing, but oh my gosh it is so stunning. From that opening sequence, you just know that you're in a completely different kind of world in very different hands. It is so beautiful. I was like, wow, there are so many frames of this film that I just want to take pictures off and put them on my walls; it's just stunning. Really really stunning.
They shot the film mostly in Australia, and I’m like, ‘I need to know where those locations, because when we can finally travel, I'm going there.’
Mon: Yeah, I think the combination of the cinematography with the fight choreography, it was just a stunning, breathtaking film to watch.
Ron: And you can see why Marvel would want us to watch it on the big screen. Though having said that, a lot of people aren't comfortable going to the movies yet so that was a bit mean to not put it also on Disney+.
Mon: Yeah, the problem is, on the one hand, you feel like Marvel is being really selfish by not giving Disney+, or at home on-demand access, but on the other hand, you get it because—as we see with the whole Black Widow issue—creators, cast, they’re basically being fleeced. So, of course this is a capitalism problem. Big names like Scarlett Johansson, maybe they can do something to change it.
But the issue is that not every country, not every person, is going to be comfortable getting out there and watching this film on a big screen. You will enjoy it be it on a small screen or a big screen. It is a very fun film, much lighter, much more fantastical. It's very much an experience. It's Marvel, but at times it doesn't really feel like it.
Ron: And that's a really really good thing because I think the Marvel, visual formula, it needs to change, and I'm glad that Shang-Chi is helping to do that because it is a stunning film. It is so much fun. And what I really loved about the film was that at the end of it, you love these characters. I can't wait to watch them again. I don't know how we'll see them, where we will see them, what the deal is. Marvel has a plan, we know that, it's Marvel. But I'm excited to see them again and I really want to see how the way, the fights, the cinematography in this film mingle with others.
But we had a great time. If you can, if you feel it’s safe, go to your nearest theater, check out Shang-Chi and enjoy yourself. It's a great experience.
So that concludes our non spoiler section, let's dig into the spoilers.
Okay, so you wanted to talk about story structure.
Mon: Right. If you hear about this film, you will think it's only about Simu Liu’s Shang-Chi. That is incorrect. This film is very much an ensemble. There are character arcs for Shang-Chi, for Katy for his sister Xialing, for his mom and for his dad. That's five characters, all of whom get a lot of screen time. I would say a character like Xialing probably deserved more.
What I felt with the film was that they were definitely trying to freshen up the Marvel formula, despite going origin—information—final battle. They tried to intersperse it with a lot of flashbacks and each flashback sort of piggybacked on new information and gave you more context about what's happened.
Now, for me, that impacted the viewing experience a little bit, because it just changed up the pace too much. But it also meant that very important information was being added very late in the day. So, the opening sequence is very beautiful and deceptively becomes about a love story. I actually loved that—it felt very classic—but it didn't tie in with the final battle. Because the stakes of the final battle were only explained in the third act, when we learned about the devourer and the protector. There should have been a way to link that information to the beginning or make The Mandarin the boss fight. But he's not the boss fight. That was the biggest struggle. There has to be a rhythm.
Ron: That's so interesting. That's not how I felt.
Mon: That's so interesting. We usually agree on these things.
Ron: I quite liked the story structure in the sense that every act has like a beginning, middle and end on its own. So it kind of concluded, and then we moved on to the next section. I don't feel like other Marvel movies do that.
For me the beginning and the end, despite the fact that we don't know about the protector and the devourer, that's something that we don't really get to know about till the fag end of the movie. The reason why the first and last sections actually connect, is through the emotions of the characters. It's visually more obviously with the fight scenes between Wenwu and Li, and in the third act between Wenwu and Shang-Chi. So they kind of bookend the love story—in the sense that in the first fight scene, it's Wenwu and Li fighting and actually falling in love. And at the end it's Wenwu and Shang-Chi fighting, and Wenwu realizing that he does love his children, and maybe he made a mistake with the way he basically lived his life and brought up his kids. And then sacrificing himself so that his children could live. That's how I felt it bookended and connected.
Whereas all the events that actually happen throughout, it's there to get us from the beginning to the end. It kinda actually feels like it's Wenwu’s story in some ways, it isn’t just Shang-Chi’s. Because Wenwu starts off as this, you know, tyrannical, narcissistic warrior, and he ends up as this person who's like self-actualized, realizing that his family was the most important thing and that's it, he can now go in peace.
So that's how I felt the story structure works. All the other information that comes in, that's just part of the journey. The actual plot is Wenwu realizing who he's here for.
Mon: That's a beautiful way of explaining the whole thing. I mean, visually, I definitely saw the connection between Li and Wenwu’s original fight and Shang-Chi and Wenwu’s fight later on; and that's great. However, there still is a battle after that. So, it's not technically bookended, is it? Shang-Chi and Xialing, still have another fight to fight after that.
Those two dragons… I felt like we could have seen them in a different movie. When The Ten Rings return, I would have liked to have seen them introduce then.
Ron: Okay, that's an interesting point. I also feel like maybe this was the cinematic choice for Shang-Chi because of who was making it, and the influences that come into making this film. I think it works. It is different. It is something that some people might take some time getting used to, but within the context of this film, it works.
There is a lot of information that we get, but I feel like if we were to have an entire movie just on the devourer and the projector, I think we would have been bored.
Mon: Then it will become a Creature Feature.
Ron: Yes. Which is kind of the problem that we had with The Incredible Hulk. I am a bit tired of CGI monster fights. I kind of liked it in Godzilla for a little bit, but then after a while I got tired of it.
Mon: I have to say that they were quite clever in the CGI monster fight in this film. While the two dragons are fighting each other, it’s still Xialing and Shang-Chi who have to actually guide them. And it's the humans who are working to make sure that, yes they do win. I really like that. Because a lot of times they just leave it up to these two creatures fighting each other, and I never have understood the appeal of that.
Ron: I can't be invested in those things. So here there was human life at stake, and it kinda gave Xialing and Shang-Chi a chance to connect. So, I think it worked in that sense.
But yeah, the story structure is very different. It is a completely different experience from all the other Marvel films. I'm interested to see what happens when we do see Shang-Chi and his crew of misfits, next time around. Because, yeah, it was different, but I do feel like the emotional arc was really at the core of this. Everything else existed to service that.
Mon: I agree, definitely. I think for me, with this film and with Black Widow, they felt very much like ensemble casts, but were titled as solo films.
Ron: Yes.
Mon: And I think both times, it's to the detriment of the entire cast. Because there's a lot of growth that we're expecting of these characters but then people get shunted to one side or the other because so and so can actually win the day. That's where the pacing issue—which I also mentioned with Black Widow, same with this film—I struggle with a little bit.
Ron: It's so funny because even with Black Widow, I just did not get the pacing issues.
Mon: You and I are obviously experiencing Budapest very differently.
Ron: I think because of the pandemic, I'm just like, ‘a Marvel film! Superheroes in my life again. Yas!’ Maybe I'm being a little bit lenient with them because I'm so excited to see superheroes again on my screen.
Mon: Well, I think I constantly compare stuff to Black Panther, within the pantheon of Marvel films. I mean, because it is so tightly edited, written, it just flows like this perfect poem. So, I’ve spent a lot of time wondering, ‘couldn’t that bit have been cut out, or couldn’t there have been a better way to edit that or put that together?’ So I struggle with that a lot, and I keep thinking about how perfectly Black Panther sort of made this world-ending, but also a very personal story, and gave everyone these arcs as well. Maybe that's a little bit unfair, because it's a very different kind of film.
Ron: Yeah, I also think that we’ve now had a lot of time to sit down with Black Panther and really enjoy it. We've seen it quite a few times, but with both Black Widow and Shang-Chi we've only seen them one time, and we definitely look forward to seeing it again.
But, I think, with most superhero movies people, you enjoy it a lot the first time around, but with the second time and third time—and we do end up watching superhero movies quite a few times—you get a few of the nuances that you missed the first time around.
Mon: Okay, that's a fair point.
So, I gotta to say one more thing and this is a Marvel problem, not a Shang-Chi problem. And it's the idea of having these fictitious worlds—over here it Ta-Lo. We also have Wakanda, Sokovia, Asgard, and then there's the whole of the United States.
When you have these sort of monolithic foreign lands, but they're not of this Earth. And when I say not of this earth, I mean, literally don't exist—it kind of annoys me. Because it's negating the experiences, the lives of real people who look like the actors that we see in these films. And it isn't a Shang-Chi problem, we do love how Ta-Lo looks, but couldn’t it just have been set somewhere in China?
Ron: Yes, I see what you mean. It's like almost a Pan-Asian fantasy world. Where Wakanda was also kinda like a Pan-African fantasy world. And Sokovia, I guess, you could say in Pan-Eastern European? That kind of thing.
But this is a problem beyond Marvel.
Mon: Totally. I agree with you.
Ron: This is the problem with the way Hollywood deals with anything Eastern side. Even Aladdin, which you and I love, has a kind of Pan-Middle Eastern look to it. But the thing is, it's not just Asia or Southeast Asia, or South Asia. There are so many countries and within those countries, there are so many different cultures, it can't be encapsulated in one place. So yeah, that's definitely something that Hollywood has to look into.
Mon: It's an inclusion issue.
Ron: It is.
Mon: Because we have diversity, we got representation. Now we need inclusion. And it’s gonna take time, which is frustrating. This is 25 films, Marvel, seriously!
Okay, you know what, I'm going to stop with the negativity. Because this is a really really fun film.
Despite introducing so many characters to us, I knew these characters by the end of them.
Ron: Yes.
Mon: Because of the story structure, and the flashbacks you do learn a lot more about young Shang-Chi and Xialing, as well as about Li and Wenwu. So we do learn about them.
Ron: In fact, I quite liked the little quirks that we do get to know about them. In the beginning, when we realize that Shang-Chi and Katy are valets who do enjoy taking joy rides in client’s cars. But, what I really liked is that Katy loves being a valet. And obviously, her mom and her grandma are not very happy with this career choice—Katy's brother is totally chill about it—it is actually a very crucial element of the story. Her driving saves people twice. I thought that was quite fun because I thought this is just a way for them to show that these two characters are losers. But actually, for Katy, it's not like that.
She realizes that she can learn other skills, but she's quite happy where she is right at the beginning. It's everybody else around her that’s bringing her down. That was unexpected.
Mon: How much did you love the fact that Katy and Shang-Chi don't end up being a couple. They’re just besties.
Ron: I was so relieved, because I was getting Jane and Thor vibes from them. And I was like, please… Like, I love Jane Foster; I love Thor. I think they’re very cute together. That first film, they just needed to be friends. We didn't need them to be a couple. Shang-Chi does it right. They're just friends, and they stay that way. Maybe there'll be romance in the future, maybe there won't, but at least in this film they had a friendly vibe, they stuck with it. No forced, idiotic romance, where everybody’s like uhhhh, groan.
Mon: So, the surprise character for me was Xialing. I didn't know Shang-Chi had a sister—neither did Katy. But she herself has a really interesting arc. The only issue was that she got the Hope Van Dyne treatment. She kept getting shunted out of the story because she's not the main star. She also has the same haircut, that was so confusing.
Ron: Oh my gawd, you’re so right.
Mon: Exactly the same haircut.
Ron: What is the deal with that?
Mon: Not sure.
Ron: Maybe she's all ‘bizness’. [Laughs]
Mon: I feel like we are going to see more of this character.
Ron: So, in the comic book that I read, when we meet Xialing, she's a bad guy.
Mon: Well, I definitely got bad guy vibes from her by the end of the film.
Ron: Yes. So I think they're going in that direction, which is not great because I don't want Shang-Chi to fight with his sister. But I’m sure they’ll find a way around.
Yeah, I actually thought that was quite fun. So for me, it wasn't a surprise that Xialing was going to turn up. I had no idea that she was actually going to be there. There’s a lot of angst with Xialing. I got Yelena vibes. Like abandonment, looking up to your sibling and thinking that I can be like them, and then they go on to have this life, and you're stuck. So I got that from there. I feel like whatever path Yelena takes, Xialing is going in a completely different direction.
Mon: Yeah, I definitely would like to see her again. I mean, I'd like to see all these characters again. I wonder if we'll see somebody like Ying Nan.
Ron: So, it's kind of funny because when I was watching Michelle Yeoh as Ying Nan, I was like, ‘yay, so cool’. And then I read something and I was like, ‘oh my gosh she's already been in Guardians of the Galaxy 2. I’m not sure why they’re doing that with some of the actors.
But you know, you might just see her in the fourth Thor movie. We might see her in the third Guardians of the Galaxy movie. Or we'll see her as Ying Nan in the next Shang-Chi movie. And I think that might be possible, because, from what I understand, the beginning of this film actually takes place after the Snap.
Mon: Yeah.
Ron: So there are like these post-Blip posters and things. Shang-Chi and Katy's friend talks about the Snap and she seems rattled about it—maybe, who knows, she had an experience with it. So it’s happening now; it is current. So it's not like Ying Nan’s dead. So we might just see her again. Of course it depends on whether Ta-Lo is going to be accessible to the rest of the world, but I think it will be. Honestly, with Michelle Yeoh, you can’t not. It’s Michelle Yeoh.
There were a lot of unexpected cameos here. So the whole cage fighter arena that is basically being run by Xialing, we see the Abomination, who's fighting Wong, of all people. So is this something that the Avengers do in their downtime? That was so unexpected and very funny. And I liked the fact that Wong won that battle. Good on you, Wong.
We also see somebody with Extremis; there's some other people in the background with some powers. I don't know how Xialing is running this thing where she's getting these superpowered people, but that was interesting.
And I wonder whether, since at the end of the movie, she's taken over the Ten Rings and she is re-vamped the image, whether we'll see something like that again. But yeah, that was funny.
And let's not forget the Mandarin, Trevor Slattery, played by Ben Kingsley.
Mon: I love how this film recontextualizes the Mandarin.
Ron: Yes.
Mon: A lot of people were very upset with how Iron Man 3 handled that character. It was dual upsetness—people didn't like the twist, but also people didn't like the stereotypical appropriation. So, this film really treats it as the joke that it is meant to. I love that.
Tony Leung talking about how they named this terrorist character after a chicken dish—we just all started laughing in the theater. I really like that. And the fact that Ben Kingsley comes back for this rather silly, prolonged, thankless cameo is great. But it's memorable, because he's very funny; he's actually part of it. He's part of the final battle. Who thinks of that?
But I kind of got Ross-vibes from him. Ben Kingsley pretty much plays the same kind of person that Martin Freeman played in Black Panther…
Ron: Kind of, yeah.
Mon: …Which is just someone who's there for comic relief and considering this is quite a funny film, he actually adds to it, which would have been hard but they successfully added him in and didn't make him feel like a prolonged joke.
Ron: Yeah, that was a bit of a relief because I was like, what is he going to be doing here? But he does play a part. It's a bit of a very silly part, but it does actually help the characters get to their destination. And it gave us a little bit of very needed comic relief during that final battle because that did get intense. I was surprised actually that they ramped up the intensity at the end and they kept it going. So, we just got that, like, two seconds with Trevor that helped dissipate some of the tension.
I have to say, as somebody who really loves dragons, I really love this dragon!
Mon: [laughs]
Ron: I had no idea that there was going to be an actual dragon in this movie. It was so beautiful and it was very different looking. We're very used to dragons being all dark and scaly, but this was red and white, very unique features. I really liked the look of it. And I was very excited. I love dragons. So, for me, seeing a dragon made me very happy.
Mon: In China, dragons are very revered creatures. So, this film sort of emulated some of the more mythological features from the Eastern side instead of the Western side that we usually see, but it has its own very unique look. So, that was kind of cool.
Ron: So, let's talk about those two end-credits scenes.
Mon: I am still surprised that, after 25 films, people leave when the credits roll.
Ron: What is wrong with them?
Mon: Stuff happens, people, stuff happens!
Ron: Important stuff! We have this entire scene where Katy and Shang-Chi, both of them together, are in Kamar-Taj with Wong and they’re speaking to Captain Marvel and Bruce Banner. And there’s a lot of interesting visual things happening there.
For one, Bruce is not green anymore. He’s a normal-sized human being, but his arm is still in a sling. So, this is obviously sometime after Endgame but what happened to Professor Hulk? Captain Marvel has long hair again. Are we to assume that a certain amount of time has passed since the events of Endgame? There's a little bit of humor thrown in there, where Captain Marvel was like, ‘Bruce, you know how to call me.’ And he's like, ‘No, I do not.’
Mon: The crux of that scene is Wong examining one of the rings that Shang-Chi now owns, and it seems to be a beacon.
Ron: Wong also mentions that it's nothing like he has seen before. So we don't know what the chemical and physical makeup of these rings are. According to Bruce, these things are 1000s of years old, even older than Wenwu. There's a lot of mystery surrounding them.
This film was really about Shang-Chi getting the rings.
Mon: But the rings themselves are probably going to tie into a much larger Phase Four story.
Ron: Yeah.
Mon: Maybe it even ties into the multiverse.
Ron: I felt like with Wong being there, that there was some multiverse journey that he was talking about. He was telling them to prepare; basically, go home, get some rest because they have a lot of work ahead of them. Being Katy and Shang-Chi, they do not do that. Instead, they hit a karaoke bar, get drunk and I sing very badly. But guess what, Wong joins them! Wong is amazing. This guy is just the best.
Mon: I know. We need to see a lot more of Wong; the best character ever.
Ron: Him and Luiz, we need to see them together.
Mon: That would be the best film.
And the second end credit scene, of course, is Xialing, now the rightful owner of The Ten Rings. She has made it mixed gender, after being shunted out of all of her father's teachings. And she has given her father's facility a makeover.
Ron: There's a lot of very nice graffiti on that.
Mon: She has gone full gangsta!
Ron: But did you notice that most of the graffiti was ladies.
Mon: I did notice that.
Ron: I like it! Own your feminism Xialing.
Mon: So, I really don't want her to be a full-on bad guy, because I don't believe she wants to do anything bad, she wants to be in. And I'm hoping that she's actually building an army to protect this world.
Ron: Yeah, but I got the sense that that was not her intention, not in that credit scene. But you never know, we've had redemption arcs for so many people in the Marvel Universe—Loki just got an entire series and this wasn't even the redeemed Loki, this was the naughty one. I think Xialing will be gine.
There was a lot that happened in this film. The end credits were really good teasers; you got that feeling, you know, when we were watching Ant-Man. That end credits with Captain America and Sam Wilson and Bucky Barnes, and you’re like, ‘what's gonna happen?’ I got that feeling.
Mon: Like you’re watching a film which is part of a bigger world. And I guess we kind of missed that, because with Endgame there was this finality to it. And with Black Widow, we sort of skipped over the part where we would actually get to meet Black Widow. But here it seems like it's the hear and now, it’s the present, you're meeting these characters, and hopefully when they return, it won't be like some kind of huge time-jump. They will be the same people, but part of something bigger.
Ron: Yeah, but mostly hanging out with Wong…
Mon: And singing karaoke.
Speaking of karaoke, we have to go out and listen to the soundtrack.
Ron: Yes. The songs, the music, everything was so good. It just fit the vibe so well of this entire film. Especially in that last action scene when Shang-Chi has the rings—that music was so good. I can't wait to listen to it again.
Mon: Absolutely.
Ron: We had a really really good time. I thought it was beautiful. I thought it was fun; I thought it was funny. It was really exciting. I had no idea what to expect, and I can’t wait to see more.
Mon: Same. I love these characters. I love the cinematography; I love the choreography. It felt like we were meeting old friends
Ron: It definitely did.
Have you seen Shang-Chi and the Legend of the Ten Rings? Tell us what you think.
Ron: You can find us on Twitter @Stereo_Geeks. Or send us an email [email protected]. We hope you enjoyed this episode. And see you next week!
Mon: The Stereo Geeks logo was created using Canva. The music for our podcast comes courtesy Audionautix.
[Continuum by Audionautix plays]
Transcription by Otter.ai, Ron, and Mon.