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Mon: Hello and welcome to a new episode of Stereo Geeks! Today we’re talking about Captain America: Brave New World. I’m Mon.

Ron: And I’m Ron. As usual, we have a lot of thoughts, but we’ll break them up into spoiler-free and spoiler-filled sections. 

Ron: Captain America: Brave New World sees Sam Wilson once again having to fight to prove himself worthy of the shield. After a daring mission to extract a mysterious package, Sam is on top of the world. America loves its new Captain. He’s got an excellent sidekick in Joaquin Torres as the new Falcon. Although the lad does talk a lot. Sam is also now in a position to ensure that Isaiah Bradley, the forgotten Captain America, is given his due.

Ron: But when the President of the United States of America is Thaddeus “Thunderbolt” Ross, things aren’t going to be easy. Ross isn’t just the father of Betty Ross, a critical plot point in this film, but he’s also a well-known hater of Hulks and super beings. This is the guy Sam Wilson needs to work with? The guy who threw Sam and his fellow Avengers in the Raft for not signing the Sokovia Accords?

Mon: Unsurprisingly, when the going gets tough for Ross and the US, they immediately turn on Sam. For all of Ross’ posturing about being a new man—in this case, quite literally, since Harrison Ford has taken over the role from the late William Hurt—Ross falls back on the same principles that made him so unlikeable in the first place. If it isn’t Ross’ way, it’s the highway.

Mon: Well, Captain America isn’t afraid to take the highway. So begins a tale unlike many Marvel films. Brave New World feels like an homage to old espionage films much like Captain America: The Winter Soldier did. And as in Steve Rogers’ second solo outing, Sam is pretty much on his own, with the able support of Joaquin, of course.

Ron: Captain America: Brave New World is directed by Julius Onah, a Nigerian-American filmmaker who also has acting experience. Onah may not be a familiar name to Marvel fans but I found out he directed Cloverfield: Paradox, one of the more unusual and underrated sci-fi films of the 21st century. It really isn’t surprising how well the action scenes were executed in this film. If you’ve made a space film with all the gravity-defying aspects of space travel, Captain America and Falcon flying through the air should be no trouble at all.

Mon: Ok, so this explains so much about the general feel of the film. I loooove Cloverfield: Paradox. Not going to lie, I’ve watched that film like 3 or 4 times. It’s not perfect, but I love it so much. And that’s because of the character dynamics. 

So much makes sense now. The action is one thing, but Brave New World is filled with so many touching, emotional, and funny character moments. That’s what made me love Cloverfield. Love the connection here. 

Ron: There were quite a few writers involved in this film. Aside from Onah, who also worked on the screenplay, there is Rob Edwards, a Disney mainstay who’s worked on shows such as Full House, In Living Colour, and The Fresh Prince of Bel-Air. The Falcon and the Winter Soldier showrunner Malcolm Spellman and writer Daniel Musson were expectedly part of the writing team here. And the group was rounded off with Peter Glanz, whose mainly written short films. A bit disappointing not to see any women involved in the writing.

Mon: Yeah, the lack of female writers could be felt in how one-dimensional the two women in the film were. But the wealth and variety of writing experience certainly leant itself to a different-feeling Marvel film.

Ron: I suppose in this background section we should address some of the controversies around the film. 

Mon: Yeah. Captain America: Brave New World has had a rocky road to release. Remember that time it was called Captain America: New World Order? Yeah, not a good look. 

Ron: It’s a term that has very anti-semitic connotations. The decision was thankfully made to change that.

Ron: Another issue with the film, and one that continues, is the character of Ruth Bat-Seraph. In the comics, she’s a mutant named Sabra who works for Mossad. Considering the horrifying ongoing war between Israel and Palestine, having a Mossad agent in a Captain America film has been viewed as sending an anti-Palestine message. Looks like Marvel also reacted to this criticism and Bat-Seraph is no longer called Sabra, nor is she a Mossad agent. It’s mentioned that she was born in Israel but her Israeli uniform doesn’t really appear in the film. I believe the changes to Bat-Seraph may have led to some reshoots. However, as many Palestine protestors have mentioned, it’s not just the character, but the actor, that is an issue. Shira Haas, who plays Bat-Seraph, volunteered for the Israeli Defense Forces theatre department, despite getting a medical exemption for being a cancer-survivor. The IDF has massacred tens of thousands of Palestinians just since 2023. This is… not a good look for Marvel and Disney.

Mon: Ok, wow. I didn’t know that background about the actor. That’s truly disappointing.

Ron: Yes, it is. 

Mon: And to top it all, there’s a new insider report going around about the tumultuous filming and reshoots. So, this film is… I don’t know, doomed, I guess. 

It’s the gloating about this film’s apparent failure that I can’t stand. Because, once again, you and I feel differently about this film than a lot of other people. 

Ron: Yeah. So far, we’ve talked about everything but the film. What were our initial thoughts about Brave New World?

Mon: Going in, I was very concerned about the final product. Especially after all these issues. I was apathetic for the longest time. But, not gonna lie, as more promos came up of Anthony Mackie and the film, and I’d speed by to avoid spoilers, I started getting those old butterflies in my stomach. I felt like a kid again, waiting for the film to arrive. 

Ron: Look, the days of me being excited for Marvel films is past me. The discourse is awful and it starts well before the film is even released. I can understand boycotting the film for it’s ties to attempted genocide. But for films with diverse casts, discourse from a small but vocal band of racist and sexist losers tends to be horrific. The pressure on diverse genre films to be beyond outstanding is huge. Yet they’re rarely given a fair chance. So there’s a great deal of trepidation going into superhero films nowadays.

Mon: We went for an early press screening, and there was such an air of dismissal around this film. It was like Brave New World had been written off before it even had the chance to show us what it had. 

Ron: The press screening was also 95% white men, which is such a frustrating statement about the state of entertainment media. No wonder diverse films don’t get a chance – look at who’s getting a first look at them?

Ron: But despite who we were surrounded by, nothing could shake my love for Sam Wilson. From that first moment we saw him jogging around the Washington Monument in Winter Soldier, I wanted to see more of him. When I realized that we were going to get his Falcon in the same film, I was ecstatic. I wanted nothing more than to see him become an Avenger. Sam becoming Captain America was never on my radar. It had taken so long to get Black Panther and Captain Marvel, how could we dare hope for anything more? But the final scene of Endgame surprised me, and probably many others, with Steve choosing Sam.

Mon: I know Steve’s first choice in the comics was Bucky, but the MCU isn’t a direct adaptation. And Bucky is so messed up—even after the help from the Wakandans—how could Sam not be Captain America? And this film goes out of its way to prove just why Steve chose Sam, and why Sam has always been worthy. 

Ron: Endgame was released in 2019. We had The Falcon and the Winter Soldier limited series in 2021 that further cemented Sam as Captain America. Yet in 2025, there are still moronic Marvel fans screaming about how Sam Wilson isn’t Captain America because Steve Rogers is their Captain America. Even now. Let’s translate that sentence. For some people, Sam Wilson can’t be Captain America because he isn’t a white man. As if only a white man could be Cap!

Mon: I just can’t with these people. People just want the same thing over and over again. It’s so tiring. But, weirdly enough, people’s reluctance to accept Sam Wilson as Cap provides a lot of fodder for the story, and our reading of the film.

Ron: I can’t help but evoke Kendrick Lamar’s phenomenal Super Bowl performance. America, North America, was built on the broken backs of people stolen from Africa, the Caribbean. As well as the Indians, the Chinese, the Japanese, who came here. The Indigenous people whose lands were taken away and these colonies built on. And somehow, only a white colonizer can be the face of America? What history books are these people reading? Imagine thinking something this stupid during Black History Month in 2025? When we have so many resources to educate ourselves at our fingertips.

Mon: I want to bring up Ta-Nehisi Coates’ book The Message here. He explains in one section of his book just how much of America’s dark history is being eroded to ease the supposed discomfort of some people. And how that impacts current and future generations. 

Ron: Yes! The USA had all the resources to be knowledgeable once. And now with the 47th president in charge, it’s going to be erased, perhaps completely. 

Ron: In spite of all my rage at the world, I loved the film. Captain America: Brave New World harkens back to what we loved about Winter Soldier and Black Widow. It doesn’t feel like a formulaic Marvel film. It’s more like an espionage thriller, like The Hunt for Red October. Anthony Mackie continues to be excellent and brings so much warmth to Sam Wilson. I can definitely see his Captain America leading the Avengers. Danny Ramirez is a pure joy to watch. I would have loved for Giancarlo Esposito and Carl Lumbly to have bigger roles though. They were marvellous in their scenes. Harrison Ford is a wonderful addition to the MCU. He brings a lot of heart to Ross. And, of course, this film has excellent action scenes, especially the aerial combat scenes.

Mon: I thoroughly enjoyed myself. After two viewings, I’m still in love with this film. I was so worried, and Cap reminded me I needn’t have been. I love the characters – Anthony Mackie as Sam Wilson is the best version of Captain America, with a giant caring heart, and life experience that resonates with so many of us. And Danny Ramirez, what a ray of sunshine he is. The action is visceral. The emotions are intense. 

One downer is that the political message is, unfortunately, very muddled. But the overall film is an intriguing departure from the regular Marvel fare. It’s got those Marvel landmarks in it, but they play around with those elements. 

Mon: Speaking of the characters, I’m going to start with the negative. The weakest link was Shira Haas as Ruth Bat-Seraph. Oh my gawd — probably the worst performance I’ve ever seen in a Marvel movie. Like that first scene where she’s trying to be angry and indignant at Sam, the awkward blinking and breathing — I couldn’t take her seriously after that. Every time she came on screen I was like “Urghhhh”. Please, we cannot have any more of her in the MCU. While I’m glad they dropped her problematic background from the comics, she brought nothing to the film. 

Ron: She was better when we watched it a second time but, how do we still have a waifu in 2025? Aren’t we over this? Where are the big, strong women to play superheroes?

Mon: Yeah, so tired of Marvel’s myopic view of what women look like. On the other hand, Xosha Roquemore as Leila Taylor was great. It’s an underplayed role but she goes toe to toe with Sam and Ross intellectually. I liken her to Danai Gurira’s Okoye in the Black Panther films. Leila is a woman whose job is to do the job, irrespective of who she’s working for. That’s good and bad. 

Ron: I agree. Roquemore was great to watch. As Leila Taylor, she’s got that secret service vibe down pat. Leila knows who she’s working for and that Ross isn’t the best choice for President. But she’s also sure she can make an impact from within. That doesn’t work out for Sam, but it’s the path Leila believes will work.

Mon: I liked Harrison Ford in this — but I don’t think he was perfect. This isn’t Ford throwing his best at the wall. That’s fine. He comes alive during the emotional moments, and I wish I’d seen more of that. He does a good job as Red Hulk, whatever facial movements were needed worked. I don’t think he’s at his evil and nastiest best, I wish he’d leaned into that more.

Ron: Really? I thought Harrison Ford did exactly what was needed for Ross in this film. Not the Ross we saw in Civil War, who had no emotion. We’re seeing a different Ross now. He has changed but not as much as he thinks he has. I think Ford was a great choice. He’s giving Ross the humanity and emotional intelligence that is crucial for a redemption arc. Assuming that’s where they want to go. I don’t know much about Red Hulk.

Mon: The standout performance in this film for me was Carl Lumbly. Look, I don’t know what he does, or how, but he had me in tears during a particular confrontation. The way he makes his face crumble from emotion. My gawd. I just couldn’t take it. It was so heart-breaking. But, I’ll also say it’s the writing. The creative team took a fantastical incident and made it real with the reactions and dialogue. And then Lumbly just knocks it out of the park with his performance. I’m still reeling from watching such fabulous acting. 

Ron: Lumbly is always good, no matter the role. But he was so heartbreaking in Falcon and Winter Soldier and he’s equally as heartbreaking here. We should have got more of his Isaiah Bradley, honestly. Such a layered, tortured character, and the one who tells Sam the hard truths about the country they both serve.

Mon: Agreed. I almost wish that Isaiah and Sam had more time to delve into their political differences. But more on that later.

Mon: I’m so delighted to see Anthony Mackie back as Sam Wilson/ Captain America. And this time he’s finally leading an MCU property solo. He deserves it. And he’s great. Mackie carries the burden and weight of taking up the mantle of Cap both as an actor and as the character. I love that we see how much harder Sam has to work to be Cap — he has to be so much better. Why? Because he’s a Black man taking on the shield. But also because he’s a human being sans a superhuman serum fighting people and systems much bigger than him. We see Sam straining in a fight. He’s not as fluid. We see him sweating. We see him hurting and aching. And we see him getting back up. If that’s not Captain America, then what is? 

Ron: I feel like we’ve been waiting for an eternity to see Sam Wilson’s Captain America movie. 3 years is a pretty long time. But Anthony Mackie makes it feel like no time has gone by at all. It is frustrating though that it’s taken this long for his solo film to get released, thank the reshoots for that, I guess. For me, Sam Wilson feels right as Captain America. I told you ages ago, that when they announced who would be playing Captain America, I was disappointed that Chris Evans had got the role. I love Chris Evans and his Steve Rogers but I couldn’t imagine anyone but Will Smith playing Captain America. Because, at that time, before we came to North America, the United States was exemplified by Will Smith. I know, nowadays, he’s not the flavour of the month, but way back in the 2010s, he was. It’s taken 15 long years, but it’s good to see someone who looks like Will Smith carry the shield.

Mon: Gosh, I didn’t realize you felt so strongly about the casting choice back then. But I 100% agree with you on that. 

Mon: Sam’s Captain America is also much more than a soldier. He brings his time as a counsellor to his interactions with the people he knows and loves. When he appeals to someone’s better angels, he’s bringing a wealth of psychological understanding and experience to the fray. Sam is of the people – hence, he’s taken the time to learn other languages, which he sprinkles in throughout the film. The way Sam is written, it effortlessly shows just how much more he – and any Black person – needs to accomplish to win the same prize as his white counterpart. And it also shows how similarly one can approach a situation and yet get treated differently when your identity and lived experience is not that of a white person. 

Ron: I love those nods to Sam’s counselling experience. And when he speaks to people, presidents and prime ministers, in their language, it goes to show how personable Sam is. The thing about Steve was that, as much as we all love him, he was not a people-person. He had very few people skills. He tried to be a counsellor during the Blip but he was bald-faced lying to people to make them feel better. Sam would have never done that! He knows people need the truth, no matter how bad it is. Like I said, Sam just fits as Captain America.

Mon: And from one Falcon to the next. I love love love Danny Ramirez. I have been dying to see him back as Joaquin Torres ever since we first saw him in Falcon and the Winter Soldier. He brings such a refreshing new vibe and feel to the franchise. He’s young, but he’s a working professional. He has skills that go beyond just being able to fight. Yes he’s foolhardy, but he’s got a lot of enthusiasm. Ramirez is so obviously enjoying his time with this character. He’s lithe and energetic. He’s a smartass but cool. But Ramirez is also really natural. Be it when he’s being a gregarious youngster and teasing the olds, or when he’s seriously emotional, I felt like he wasn’t even acting. I can’t wait to see more of him.

Ron: Danny Ramirez looked like he was having the time of his life in this film and I am all for it. I love watching actors just enjoy themselves. I was hoping to see Joaquin Torres in the MCU again and this film gave us some incredible moments. He is such a happy, jolly, funny character. We need more Joaquin!

Mon: I was not expecting to find a bromance in this film, but voila. We have it. 

Sam and Joaquin are master and apprentice, which is a very different dynamic from the other relationships we’ve seen Sam in. But there’s less of a mentorship angle here, which I appreciated, because I didn’t want to see another repeat of the Tony Stark and Peter Parker dynamic. Here, Sam has a capable sidekick in Joaquin. He is Sam’s partner-in-crimefighting and he speaks his language as a former military person. But Joaquin hasn’t reached the “friend stage” yet. Joaquin isn’t Bucky, and I like that Sam has accepted that but is still learning what he is to Joaquin. 

What really works for Sam and Joaquin is the amazing chemistry between Mackie and Ramirez. It’s a different kind of chemistry than the one Mackie had with Chris Evans and what he has with Sebastian Stan. It doesn’t sizzle, but it is magnetic. Director Julius Onah leans into that chemistry, with the way he shoots these two together. There’s a poetry to how Sam and Joaquin look and work together. 

Ron: The chemistry was there in Falcon and the Winter Soldier and this film amps it up. You get the eager-beaver vibe from Joaquin but not the way Peter was with Tony. Joaquin’s had his own experiences and he’s been in the military. He’s already at the top of his game. Now he just needs to get on the same level as Sam. They have such an easy chemistry in the film and it makes the whole movie so much more watchable. What I really enjoyed was that they know when to work together and when to fight separately. They’re in-sync. Until they’re not, of course.

Mon: The politics of this film were always going to be front and centre. When the original Captain America trilogy came out, the world was different — for one, most of us still had a modicum of faith left in humanity. That’s well and truly gone now. We also live in a world where the masks are off and the true motivations and thinking of the major powers in the world are bared for all to see. We’re living in a world where we know so much more about the atrocities and hideousness that have been committed under the radar of global newscasts, yet nothing is done about them. We are, in a word, cynical. And that cynicism seeps into how we view and consume our entertainment. 

Mon: At the press screening we went for, I heard a lot of chatter basically dismissing this film before it had even started. I’m aware that the trailers, which we haven’t watched, may not have given audiences the best impression of the film. But, why is the world of entertainment media writing always so quick to dismiss and demean a film that stars people of colour, Black stories, and women? 

Mon: Captain America: Brave New World is headlined by a Black actor, a Latino second-in-command, with a Black director and some Black writers, and it’s grounded in the lived experience of the Black community. The act of getting a film like this off the ground and out in the world is an act of political rebellion itself. Even in 2025, or should I say especially in 2025. 

Ron: And let’s not forget that Captain America: Brave New World has been released during Black History Month. Poignant.

Mon: That being said, the political messaging of the film is mixed and muddled, especially given it comes out so soon after the inauguration of the orange person’s second term. The world is scared, angry and confused. The people in America who do not fall into the tiny niche of acceptable, are scared, angry and confused. So a film that keeps telling us that we must see the good in the other side, give them a chance to say their piece and to find their way, is landing completely differently than it would have under a different administration. 

Mon: Is it wrong to have faith in the other side? In our hearts, we know it isn’t. But reality tells us differently. Because waiting for the other side to be better has led us to a world that just keeps getting worse. So, I’m sorry, Cap. Just because you’re a good man, doesn’t mean other people are.

Ron: That’s not the message I got. I took it as Sam thinking he could make a difference from within and he learns pretty quickly that that was never an option. He was always going to be treated as an ‘other’, as the not-Steve Rogers. Whatever chances he gives people to let them speak always come back to bite him. In the end, the only way that Captain America can save people is by holding them accountable.

Mon: But that makes the messaging even more muddled. Because the film also underlines the importance of our political figures needing to take accountability and responsibility for their wrongs. And that someone has to hold them to that. And yet, the US happily elected a twice-impeached, many-times-over felon to their highest office. So, really, this film feels like a cathartic fantasy. It was obviously created in a time of hope, but there’s no hope left. 

Ron: That’s not a helpful way of looking at the world. It does look hopeless but that doesn’t mean we stop fighting. That’s what this film tries to show us. That’s the message of Captain America, whether it’s Steve Rogers, Sam Wilson, or Peggy Carter. No matter how many times you get beat down, you stand up, you keep standing up. Because if Captain America gives up, everyone gives up. And then where does the hope come from?

Mon: Ok, wow. You are way more optimistic than I am. But I appreciate your take on this. You’re not wrong – Cap is about not giving up. I shouldn’t lose sight of that. 

Ron: I wouldn’t say I’m optimistic. The world is in a depressing state right now. The easy thing to do is give up because it’s so bleak. But that’s how the bad guys win.

Ron: Before this episode gets any more depressing, let’s talk about something we really enjoyed. The action scenes! We won’t go too much into the aerial fight scene, because that’s spoiler territory but the flying scenes are gorgeous in this film. And they look effortless. Which is quite the feat because there must have been a ton of wire-work involved for the actors and stunt people. But none of that effort is visible.

Mon: The aerial scenes are Top Gun-esque in my view. And I’m so glad Marvel doesn’t use – or is better at using – that hideous selfie camera that DC uses for their aerial shots of the characters. It’s so silly looking. Cap and Falcon never look silly in this film. 

The fight scenes in general were fabulous. Visceral is the word that comes to mind. You feel every hit and punch, because that’s what the character’s are feeling. The film really does feel like a spiritual successor to Winter Soldier especially when it comes to the fight scenes, because they’re so raw. It helps that they don’t rely on action to propel the story, so the set pieces are few and far between. And there’s a ton of hand-to-hand combat scenes mixed in with the aerial stuff. Loved it!

Ron: I was actively wincing during the film. Because, let’s not forget, Sam and Joaquin, they’re human. They’re trained by the military, sure, but they don’t have super-soldier serum making them stronger or healing them. When they get hit, punched, stabbed, shocked, those weapons are going through normal human skin. Talk about ouch!

Mon: It’s spoiler time. I’m dying to talk about the spoilers!

Mon: Let’s start with the bad. While I like that there’s a huge focus on character and, of course, the systemic racism, what this film needed was more world building. We hear a lot about the US being divided and scared. The world teetering. We can intuit that this is because of the Snap—and it is also a reflection of the world today as well. But how do the people of this film fit in? This wasn’t covered that thoroughly in Falcon and the Winter Soldier, so we needed that here. Especially to feel the stakes. Ross keeps freaking out about a treaty falling through and it takes us forever to find out just what he’s talking about and what it means. I would have also liked a little bit more of the Japanese Prime Minister drilling down on how the US loves to take other people’s property, including celestial Adamantium. Those connections needed to be made more clearly to build the tension of the film. 

What do you think? 

Ron: For the most part, I agree. I think the reason they took so long to explain the significance of the treaty was to increase the dramatic stakes. The writers didn’t want to show all their cards early on. It didn’t bother me as much. Especially the discontentment in the US. It felt weirdly similar to real life. People are unhappy with something that is beyond their control so they’ve chosen a dodgy person to lead them. In the MCU, it’s the Snap. In our real world, it’s the cost of living crisis. Either way, people are making terrible decisions about leadership and everyone else is suffering the consequences.

Mon: That makes a lot of sense. 

Mon: One big grouse for me was the climactic fight scene between Red Hulk and Sam. It was going great. Lots of destruction, Sam being beat and getting back up. And then, suddenly, it was the worst CGI background ever? And it got wrapped up in a couple of lines? What happened?

Ron: Dodgy CGI aside, that was the only way to end the fight. When has a fight with a Hulk ever been won through sheer brute force? Attacks make the Hulk more angry. Sam tried the traditional way to fight the bad guy and when he realised that that had not worked, he decided the non-traditional route. The best way to calm down a Hulk is to appeal to their heart. That’s the only thing that works. Of course, real human people aren’t Hulks and many don’t have a heart. But we’re talking about a movie, not politics.

Mon: Yeah, but Sam tried the Betty angle earlier and it didn’t work. But then later it did. 

Ron: When we watched the film a second time I saw why the Betty plea worked later. Red Hulk had already got quite a beating. He was hurt enough to not get more angry and sustain the gamma effects. At that point, Red Hulk was actively able to listen to Sam which is how Sam’s pleas got through to Ross. 

Mon: Right. On second viewing, it wasn’t as abrupt as I’d thought it was, but it still wasn’t enough. I guess I needed more time for Sam to appeal to Red Hulk. Maybe I just needed more Sam time. 

Mon: One final criticism from me is that Giancarlo Esposito was underutilized and kind of wasted. 

Ron: Yes, well that’s because he was only brought in for the reshoots. If I’m not wrong, Haas was presumably meant to have a larger role in the initial version, but given all the controversy and that it was simply terrible optics to side with attempted genocide, they brought in the Sidewinder character, played by Esposito. Problem is, when you see Giancarlo Esposito, you expect to see a lot of Giancarlo Esposito.

Mon: Thanks for the explainer. 

Mon: My favourite moment is at the end of the film, so I’m going to keep it to the end of this episode. Also, you’re champing at the bit to talk about your fav, so let’s get into it.

Ron: I have to talk about my favourite sequence from the film. The assassination attempt on Thaddeus Ross. That’s when I knew I would love this film. The lead-up to that sequence was so joyful, I knew things were going to go wrong. Sam, Joaquin, and Isaiah were in their beautiful suits. They got the limo ride to the White House, had some expensive bubbly on the way. Joaquin took that cute picture of the three of them. Even Sam and Ross were able to come to an agreement.

Mon: An agreement about a new Avengers program, too. Which Sam would be leading.

Ron: It was all so happy and hopeful. And then, when everyone’s guard was down, and they were all sitting and watching Ross’ presentation. Bam, literally. Gunshots at Ross, and from whom? Isaiah. There’s so much tumult after that. Isaiah’s not the only one shooting. Others are. And obviously, we knew something was up because we heard that incongruous song. The editing in this scene, the pacing of it, got my heart racing. I knew we were in for an exciting watch.

Mon: I’m gonna put it out there that the assassination attempt came out of nowhere for me. I was expecting a long-winded exposition scene. Really dig how this film subverts expectations.

Ron: Exactly. There’s no inkling that mind control is going to be an issue here. And that’s how it goes throughout the film. Sam and Joaquin are so often in the dark because that’s exactly how the villain has planned it out. Plus, Ross is contributing to the confusion by obfuscating facts for his own benefit.

Isaiah Bradley

Ron: That scene ends so heartbreakingly. Isaiah comes out of the mind control and is totally lost. The way Carl Lumbly says he can’t go back to prison. I cried.

Mon: I was so moved. But what got me the hardest was when Isaiah pleaded with them not to mess with his suit. It was the suit he got married to his late wife in. He has so little left, and he wanted to hold on to it. Ugh, I tell you, head in my hands moment. I cried a lot. 

Ron: Isaiah was the first Captain America and he was imprisoned for 30 years by the very government he fought for. It’s the indignity that this dignified man has to suffer again and again at the hands of a government that does not give a damn about him. That’s what hurts most watching this film. I believe this is the first inkling Sam gets that he can’t make meaningful change from within. It’s just too corrupt. 

Ron: If you want to know more of Isaiah’s story, you have to check out the comic series Captain America: Truth: Red, White, and Blue by Robert Morales and Kyle Baker. It gives you much-needed context as to why Isaiah was forgotten and the consequences of the US government’s actions in the Marvel Comics. The book also draws from very real incidents which will absolutely break your heart. 

Mon: Yeah. That’s why I do wish we’d had Sam and Isaiah duke it out – figuratively speaking – about Sam’s connection to the government. Sam does see the error of his ways, but I don’t know, concretely, if he acts on it by the end of the film. Heroes and governments don’t go together. Steve would never have been the hero he was if he’d listened to the government. Bucky wouldn’t be alive if Steve had listened to the man. Sam learns this too, the hard way. Steve was mostly given a pass for bucking orders to save Bucky – for three films, I might add. But when Sam tries to help Isaiah by working within the system, Ross pretty much tells Sam he won’t get the same grace because he’s not Steve Rogers. I mean, I don’t want to say Ross is racist, but the system is. The same system that hurt Isaiah for decades. I needed this to be a bigger discussion, a fight, a moment, between Sam and Isaiah. Maybe in the next film?

Ron: Fingers crossed.

Ron: Captain America: Brave New World has some delightfully funny moments. A lot of them from Joaquin. I could tell he’d be the funny guy when he pulled off the plastic cover on Isaiah’s phone. Carl Lumbly’s annoyed face. That was too real.

Mon: I love the humour in this film. It’s not intrusive, or, like in the early Avengers films, ruining the tension of a scene. Joaquin’s the comic relief, but he’s not in-your-face about it. I loved that silly dance move he pulls after his first mission in this film. It’s not just the dance but the fact that he’s a performer – and there’s no one there to witness his moves. 

Ron: Even though we, the audience, did actually see Joaquin’s awesome moves! Nice meta moment there.

Mon: But my favourite moment was in the Camp Echo lab. I feel a little bad for finding this funny, but when Samuel Sterns reveals his gamma-irradiated form to Joaquin and Sam, the way the two of them take a step back – it was just so freaking hilarious. It’s the way they did it so perfectly in tandem that gets me.

Ron: It was even funnier second time around! And there are lots of humorous moments sprinkled throughout the film, and they’re all very well-timed.

Mon: Exactly. I like that they’re scattered throughout, and most of the characters get to be funny at some point. And yet, it’s well within their characterizations. I would love to go into more of the comedy, but we’ll be here forever if we do. 

Mon: I need to talk about the parallels and homages to the original Captain America film trilogy. I think that was intentional. 

Ron: I need to hear this. I saw some parallels but you’ve been ruminating over this for a while.

Mon: There’s a few that stood out to me, especially the bit where Sam and Joaquin are in the car, driving to an ‘abandoned’ military camp base. Sound familiar? 

Ron: Yes! Like in Winter Soldier when Steve and Natasha are travelling to Camp Lehigh.

Mon: Right? I like that they’re showing us how Sam and Joaquin have a trusting relationship too. They’re partners, there for each other. There’s an ease to their camaraderie that Steve and Natasha didn’t have at that time, but finally got to.

Ron: Exactly. Except, Steve and Natasha still had to explain things to each other but Sam and Joaquin are much more comfortable with each other. And less awkward, as people.

Mon: So well put. Sam and Joaquin have lived lives, Steve and Natasha didn’t get to do that.

Ron: Is it an Easter Egg that Sam’s SUV is attacked in this film, just like Nick Fury’s was attacked in Winter Soldier? I feel like that’s an Easter Egg. 

Mon: Yep, absolutely. I was quite taken with that parallel. Just shows the resilience of these heroes, plus their smarts.

Ron: Also, their gear. It’s made to keep them safe.

Mon: Another parallel is Sam watching Joaquin in the operating theatre. Not a happy parallel. But they had us worried, thinking it was another Nick Fury situation. Would Joaquin die?

Ron: Oh yes! Just like Steve and Natasha watching Fury die. Joaquin doesn’t die, or fake die, like Fury. He does recover. But we get that moment between Sam and Bucky as Joaquin is being operated on.

Mon: My favourite parallel, however, was the scene between Sam and Joaquin in the hospital. Very similar to Steve waking up to find Sam caring for him. 

Ron: Sam wasn’t on Joaquin’s left though. Things have changed!

Mon: It was so cute. Sam’s always caring for someone. He’s just the best.

Ron: He’s the reliable Captain America. He isn’t going to leave his people and go live in the past. I do love Steve Rogers, but seriously, he didn’t even tell Sam he was leaving!

Mon: Oh my gawd. Don’t you start. I wrote a whole piece about that at WWAC, in case anyone’s interested. 

Ron: We can link to it in the show notes.

Ron: Can we talk about the Bucky cameo?

Mon: Yes! Bucky! I knew he’d show up, you know. And when they weren’t showing the person, I was like, “This is Buck. This has to be Buck.”

Ron: Oh, I didn’t expect to see him or anyone else, actually. But it was a sweet moment. Sam and Bucky have a weird friendship, Steve was the reason they were ‘friends’ at all. But looks like they’re getting along a lot better? It’s still not as easy as it is for Sam and Joaquin.

Mon: Really? You think so? Sam and Bucky know exactly where they’re at with each other. Sam and Joaquin aren’t on that level yet. Joaquin looks up to Sam, and Sam trusts Joaquin, but he doesn’t love him. Nah, Sam and Bucky, they’ve got a special bond. 

Ron: Yes, the bond’s name was Steve Rogers.

Mon: Hilarious! They’ve moved on, ok. They’re not pining for Steve any more. 

Ron: They literally talked about Steve the entire conversation. He’s their only connection. What do they even talk about otherwise?

Mon: I mean… you’re not wrong. Maybe that’s what makes their friendship work? They spend all their time talking about Steve. But still, they’re over him. They’re friends now. 

Ron: What would have helped was something, anything, in the last three years about Sam and Bucky, and Sam and Joaquin. Because apparently, Bucky is a Congressman now? I literally asked out loud in the press screening, when did this happen?

Mon: Yes. So loud, the girl in front of us asked us about it. Also, he’s going to be a future Congressman. Please don’t ask me how that’s possible. Bucky doesn’t even speak, and now he has speech writers. Jeez. And, I was about to say, Bucky’s killed so many people, and now he’s running for Congress? He used to be a villain. How? But then… I remembered. Truth is stranger than fiction.

Ron: Unfortunately, you’re right. I’d rather have Bucky as a Congressman in the US than what’s happening now. Anyhoo! I’m beginning to wonder if the reshoots for Brave New World pushed its release and affected the other Marvel films? And we were supposed to get an inkling about Bucky’s career some other way?

Mon: Ohhhh. That might explain things. I’m still so confused by this Bucky development. 

Mon: And before I forget, Bucky and Sam’s meeting ends with Bucky saying ‘I love you, buddy’. That’s so adorable. But also, this is growth for Marvel. The studio is so homophobic, they went into a right tizzy when the Captain America films garnered a lot of attention because of the chemistry between the male leads. We all remember how the studio queerbaited the fans by talking up the Steve and Bucky relationship in Civil War, and then totally derailed it in the actual film. So hearing Bucky actually acknowledge his brotherly love for Sam was astounding. 

Ron: That was a sweet moment. But then that was it. There weren’t any other cameos in this film. Which is sad because it makes Captain America feel like he’s outside the MCU? Am I being too harsh? It feels like Brave New World is connected to the MCU films that people don’t talk about, like The Incredible Hulk and Eternals, a film that you and I still love. How I wished we’d got to see an Eternal in this film.

Mon: First of all. That’s not true. We had the glorious experience of seeing Liv Tyler back as Betty Ross. If it’s not obvious, that was sarcasm. There’s Harrison Ford looking like he’s actually meeting his long-estranged daughter and his heart is bursting with happiness, and then there’s Liv Tyler whose face doesn’t move and she acts and delivers lines with utmost vapidity. Crikey!

Ron: Reminder that Harrison Ford is an exceptionally good actor so it isn’t that surprising that he sold that scene. And that Liv Tyler’s face has never moved.

Mon: Hilarious. I’ll also mention that there was a time when one cameo was all we needed in an MCU film to connect the dots. Bucky is all we needed to complete Sam’s arc here. And we got it. Any more, and we wouldn’t get enough Sam, and Joaquin.

Ron: I’m not saying we need to fill MCU movies with cameos. But it’s hard to connect these characters to the larger universe these days. What I really want is some confirmation that we’ll see the characters that I love once again. Not that I’m expecting Captain America to do it, but the MCU as a whole. Get it together!

Mon: Agree to disagree! But, also, you need to stop holding out hope for the Eternals coming back. It’s not going to happen. The racists won, mate.

Ron: You’ve missed the whole point of this movie. It’s all about having hope. The racists can’t take my hope of seeing the Eternals away. Never!

Mon: Ok, ok. Fine, I’m filled with hope. 

Now, speaking of MCU connections, I’m pretty sure people are going to—if they aren’t already— complain that Brave New World needs you to do a fair amount of studying before watching this film. 

Ron: Do you, though?

Mon: I was just getting to that. Marvel is very good at filling in the gaps diegetically. And I think they did that with Brave New World. You don’t have to have seen The Incredible Hulk to know that Ross did something bad once, and is now atoning for his sins, and still not getting his daughter back. And also, a weird thing appeared in the middle of nowhere and it’s filled with an awesome new mineral called… adamantium. Right?

Ron: Mic drop. Everyone’s excited. We’ve got adamantium in the MCU. Bring on the X-Men. But also, people watching this film will be like, what is this huge thing in the Indian Ocean, and then they’ll have to watch Eternals to find out. I win. Suck it, racists.

Mon: Oh my gawd. You’re too funny. Also, everyone, please watch Eternals. 

Back to Brave New World. I don’t think people will miss out without the study aspect, but you know the argument by the haters is going to be, ‘oh, they’re all interconnected and it makes no sense. Why won’t they think of me?”

Ron: Noticeably, they don’t say that when they have to watch 10 Wolverine movies to understand Deadpool & Wolverine.

Mon: Urgh. Why remind me and make me mad? I don’t care about the haters. I thought the film was exquisitely clever in filling the massive plot hole of how The Incredible Hulk fits into the MCU, and where the gamma-irradiated man went. And it’s less about the big revelations and more about the impact of the revelations.

Ron: Agreed. It’s not a big deal if you figure out that the villain is Samuel Sterns, played by Tim Blake Nelson. I figured it out in the intro scene but it’s okay if others didn’t. What matters is what Sterns is doing in Brave New World.

Mon: We’re not surprised that Ross continues to be an idiot. We’re more surprised that his idiocy has ruined his relationship with his daughter, and how that’s emotionally taking a toll on him. And, that Ross, just like anyone else, just wants to live long enough to see her again. Dang, who thought I’d feel bad for Ross? 

Ron: That’s what I’m saying. Harrison Ford brings those feels. William Hurt wasn’t playing Ross in that way. Ford, however, is playing the sad dad more than he’s playing a useless President here.

Mon: Yes, well, I did say I liked the emotional bits, I just wish Ford had been a bit more nasty and evil as well. 

Ron: No, no, no. Ford’s Ross is not supposed to be nasty. He’s an idiot, but he’s shedding his horrible side. He’s doing a really bad job of it though, because look at how badly he treats Sam after the assassination attempt. You’d think Sam pulled the trigger!

Mon: Ohhhhh. Wow. I misread that totally. Good point. 

Ron: My final thoughts. Captain America: Brave New World is an ode to political spy thrillers dressed as a Marvel film. It has amazing action scenes that have to be enjoyed on the big screen. Anthony Mackie and Danny Ramirez are going to be everybody’s new favourite MCU duo. This film is a lot of fun, and has a ton of heart. It’s also got a message to the people in charge of the US right now—you have got to see the best in people who aren’t like you!

Mon: I love the final scene of the film (before the post-credits). Sam and Joaquin have a heart-to-heart, and it’s really touching because they’re both struggling to be like the superheroes who have come before. Both Sam and Joaquin see other superheroes, anyone but themselves, as these flawless beings who’ve never made a mistake, who’ve never got hurt, who’ve never lost anyone, who always win. Now, we know that’s not true. But explain that to a couple of guys who, in the film and also in the real world, are fighting an uphill battle to be accepted as superheroes in their own right. That’s the core theme of the film, and that’s what makes it even more unique. 

Mon: And that final scene essentially closes the loop on what Bucky said to Sam – Sam didn’t take the serum, and he’s still killing it as Captain America. Steve was someone to believe in, Sam is someone people can aspire to be. Joaquin literally says he aspires to be Sam. And that Joaquin is even willing to take on the pain of responsibility and pressure, because that’s what Sam does. Joaquin sees Sam as that perfect superhero. And bam, the film ends and goes into Kendrick Lamar’s ‘i’, a song from 10 years ago that features the line ‘I love myself’. Wow, Sam, Joaquin and even Kendrick’s telling you to love yourself. Just do it! We love you, buddy!