Listen to the episode on Spotify.

Mon: Hello and thanks for tuning into Stereo Geeks! Today we’re discussing Daredevil: Born Again. I’m Mon.

Ron: And I’m Ron. While we’ve seen the entire first season of this MCU show, we will mainly be discussing the first two episodes. So this is a spoiler-free zone.

Mon: We’re back in New York, but no longer in Hell’s Kitchen. Matt Murdock, played once again by Charlie Cox, has moved up and on in life, but hoo boy, do things go down first! You are not ready for what happens in the first episode. 

Ron: There has to be a reason why the show is called Daredevil: Born Again. Things need to change significantly in Matt Murdock’s life for him to experience a rebirth. Some of them will be good but since this is a gritty superhero show, a lot of those things will be bad. People are going to have very strong reactions to the events of the first episode. I’m not sure I’m 100% happy with the decisions made but it’s a hell of a way to breathe new life into a character.

Mon: And Matt is only one part of the story in this series. There are a couple of rebirths happening here – the other one is Wilson Fisk. He’s been the Kingpin; a bad guy; a scary guy; a mentor gone wrong. But here, in Daredevil: Born Again, he has a whole new mission. Brought to life by Vincent D’Onofrio once again, Fisk is a complicated character. He keeps Matt, and the viewer, off kilter throughout. 

Ron: I’ve got to say, I came into this show with more knowledge of Fisk than Murdock. I was captivated by Fisk in both Hawkeye and Echo. It’s hard not to be fascinated by this horrifying man who takes people’s heads off with car doors…

Mon: How do I not remember Fisk doing that? Maybe I looked away. 

Ron: I can’t forget it! Especially when on the opposite side is Daredevil the do-gooder. The dichotomy between the two of them is set up right from the start of this show and plays out both in the plot and often visually.

Ron: But there are other storylines here. There’s a running theme of bringing down vigilantes. Which obviously Fisk is a proponent of. There’s the political plotline - one that we can’t help but compare to the very real situation in the US right now. Power imbalances are another running theme that I found thought-provoking. 

Mon: Netflix’s Daredevil was a huge hit. It was supposed to be the start of the more grounded era of Marvel properties. But then the studio couldn’t make up its mind if the Netflix shows were part of the universe or not. And eventually, that part of the franchise fizzled out. 

Ron: But fans’ love for the characters – or rather of Daredevil – never waned. And now he’s back as part of the Marvel Cinematic Universe. 

Mon: The return of Charlie Cox as Matt Murdock has been teased for a few properties now. Our curiosity was piqued in Spider-Man: No Way Home, and then he had memorable cameos on She-Hulk: Attorney at Law…

Ron: Probably my favourite rendition of Daredevil so far. 

Mon: Likewise. And he also appeared in an episode of the underrated Echo. Do you remember how much of the OG show you watched?

Ron: Dude, I fell asleep in episode 4, maybe 6? And never watched another episode again. The Daredevil I know is the lovesick softie in The Defenders show. I love that show. And then I saw him again as the romantic foil in She-Hulk. 

Mon: Oooo boy. Well this is going to be an interesting chat then. I watched the first two seasons, but I’ll be honest, I only paid attention to the first three quarters of season one. I completely lost interest in the show after he got his supersuit. 

Mon: I can’t explain it. But he went from being an everyman doing good, to something unattainable. We can’t be Daredevil, because we can’t get that suit. I don’t know why the bubble burst, but it did. And then I just went through the motions of watching it, but nothing stuck. I never went back to season 3.

Ron: So, neither of us has a thorough understanding of the guy we’re meeting in Born Again?

Mon: Unfortunately, no. But people love Daredevil, and they loved the show. They manifested his return. 

Ron: Which is why we’re here talking about it.

Mon: I am always worried about new  Marvel stuff. Because I love this franchise so much, and because there’s endless discourse around it. It’s never-ending, and it’s hard to enjoy. I also don’t know much about Daredevil and his world. I’ve read a little of him, but not this particular comic series that Born Again is inspired by. But, you know what, I really dug the first two episodes. 

Ron: I have not been concerned about this show. For all the hate that the diverse properties in the MCU have received, it’s always been the complete opposite for Daredevil. Which is so odd because it’s the only one of the Netflix shows that bored me to tears. 

Mon: You’re very right. My concern was more about whether you and I would enjoy it. This show was always going to be a success, irrespective of its quality or central message.

Ron: I think it helps that we weren’t super-invested. People have been desperate for Daredevil’s return but it’s not been a huge concern for me. So I felt like I could go into this show with no stakes. The fact that the first two episodes ended up being so engaging is a huge plus. 

Mon: The show starts off with a really different tone and vibe from the other Marvel properties. That’s what I’ve really enjoyed about the Marvel shows. They’re all so different. They’re different genres. Different tones, styles. You never know what’ll take your fancy.

Ron: The Disney+ TV shows have worked for me especially because they’re so unlike the movies, and each other. With this show, it’s not just gritty, it’s on the ground with the people. 

Mon: I would never have guessed a silly sitcom about a lady lawyer was going to be one of my top favourite Marvel shows, but here I am still pining for She-Hulk. And now we’ve got Born Again – it’s kind of like a legal procedural. Kinda grassroots. A character study. And yeah, this is, apparently, also my jam.

Ron: The music in the first two episodes was excellent, and that continues through this first season. I love the orchestral version of the Daredevil theme and the visuals of the opening credits strongly symbolize destruction and rebirth. Beautiful and memorable. But all the song choices have been excellent so far. ‘Future Starts Slow’ was a poignant choice, and full of foreshadowing. That needle drop of ‘Get Free’ by The Vines, especially after that brutal action scene? I’m very into this. 

Mon: Agreed. Great music choices. Question for you – as someone with very little background on Daredevil, especially the screen version, how lost, or not lost, were you watching the show? 

Ron: A little lost. But not so much with Daredevil himself. Maybe because I love The Defenders so much and that show filled up some gaps. Vanessa Fisk, played by Ayelet Zurer, was the one character I felt a bit lost about. The episodes of the original show that I watched, she hadn’t married Fisk yet. They were courting. So how is she in the position she’s in now? What’s the dynamic between them?

Mon: First up, I want to complain about something. Daredevil: Born Again has nine episodes which are each around an hour-long. And yet, they go straight into the story. No filling in details. No ‘previously in Marvel’ montage. Just, bam, here’s a bunch of people, they all got history, follow them. But Echo, which only had five episodes, most of which were around the 30-minute mark, had to waste most of the first episode filling in the details about the characters. Why?

Ron: That was a sore point for a lot of fans of Echo. Her story got cut short because it was assumed that nobody would have watched Hawkeye to know who she was. They did the same thing with The Marvels because apparently nobody would have watched Ms Marvel. I don’t know how these executive decisions are made but people are watching these shows with diverse characters. Give us more story and less background. 

Mon: And I knew this would happen. They didn’t give much background in Deadpool & Wolverine either. And they don’t for Daredevil: Born Again. They just assume that since these are the popular white guy heroes, that everyone will have already seen their stuff. But, when The Marvels or Echo come along, they need to have minuscule run times and most of it is filling in gaps. And truth be told, you do need a ton of background to understand several of the dynamics in Born Again. This show needs you to do homework.

Ron: Yes. Like I don’t know what Fisk’s beef with the commissioner is. I don’t know who the five families are that Vanessa is handling. I don’t even know who all those people in the bar were in the first episode. But I’m going to keep watching because I’m interested. Why does everyone assume that if it’s a woman or a person of colour in the lead, they shouldn’t get that same grace?

Mon: This really, really annoys me. Because, neither of us knows all the history of the characters on this show. So, yeah, I could do with some context. But am I going to complain there isn’t any? No! Because I get that the story is going to build and let us know what we need to know. That same grace, however, is not meted out to women and characters of colour in other Marvel properties.

Ron: Having said that, what were our overall impressions of the show? I really enjoyed the show even though I didn’t expect to. I couldn’t stop watching. Daredevil: Born Again has a very down-to-earth vibe, and often doesn’t even feel like a superhero show. More like a legal procedural. And those were the episodes I enjoyed the most. It also feels prescient of the times we’re living in, especially for people in the US. I did think it took a bit too long to set up the central premise. While I enjoyed the episodic stories, the connective tissue, beyond the protagonist, was missing for me.

Mon: I was surprised how compelling I found Daredevil: Born Again. It balances out the serialized storyline with more episodic plots. It’s well-written, and mostly beautifully-directed. The show is interested in studying the two main characters. That’s good and bad. We are drawn into figuring out Matt and Fisk; what do their actions really mean? What’s their motivation? Do we trust them? That’s great. But all this character development comes at the cost of world-building. There’s very little of that. We’re told a lot of what’s happening outside the universes of Matt and Fisk. But considering both characters’ are so enmeshed with their city, New York, itself, gets lost in the milieu. Especially in the latter half of the season when Matt and Fisk’s actions impact the city. So that’s something to consider when watching this season. Also - blood, gore, and violence. Please be warned. But overall, this was an engrossing watch.

Mon: Speaking of character studies. I find Matt intriguing, but he’s not quite as riveting as Fisk. Is he good; is he bad? What’s his agenda?

Ron: We can’t get into spoiler territory here but there are a few new characters introduced in Daredevil: Born Again. I can’t say I’m crazy about anyone yet. I liked Matt Murdock initially, of course, and I like all the details about how he navigates the world around him. Matt putting his fingers under the cup so he can feel the table; the way he uses his fingers to guide the food onto his fork, those moments made him feel more real, like an actual person that we could connect with. Of course, reminder that Charlie Cox isn’t visually-impaired. How interesting would it be if Daredevil was played by an actor with the same abilities?

Mon: Yes, that’s a sticking point about the casting, for sure. I’m a little frustrated that Matt’s thrust into a romance almost from the get-go. Maybe that’s from the source material, I don’t know. 

Ron: Yes, but he’s always in a relationship onscreen, it seems? Having only seen Matt in Defenders and She-Hulk, he seems like a casanova. But that’s also why I really struggled with him in the back half of the season. I’m sorry to say but he is an absolute jerk and an awful boyfriend. I couldn’t stand him by the end of the season and really wanted to save Matt’s new love interest from him.

Mon: Matt really grated on me by the end of the show as well. 

Ron: To that point, I can’t figure out when this show takes place. It’s after Echo for obvious reasons. But why is Matt with this new lady? What happened to Jennifer Walters?

Mon: Mate, the creators of this show have completely disregarded She-Hulk: Attorney at Law. That show was not in consideration when making this. Because, as usual, the powers-that-be just don’t care about the properties featuring non-dudes, or non-white people. They’re always getting erased. It’s so frustrating.

Ron: Oh no! Please don’t say that. I thought maybe this show took place before Matt met Jennifer?

Mon: The showrunner literally said that, mate. Check CBR.

Mon: Anyway. The new romance undermines any chance of Matt growing as a character. Is this person going to be anything other than a prop? 

Ron: Considering the position that Matt is in now, the romance feels a bit forced. Like the writers needed to add some jeopardy for Matt.

Mon: That’s my concern. The romance also suppresses some other genuine emotions and emotional arcs we’d rather see Matt navigating. Or he should be navigating. I was hoping it would make more sense after the first two episodes but it doesn’t really, does it? And perhaps those familiar with the source material already understand why Matt isn’t dealing with the issues he really needs to.

Ron: Men being sad in a superhero show? Never. They only have two emotions - angry and aggressively romantic. 

Mon: I’m pretty sure Matt Murdock has had more relationships than all the other Marvel heroes combined. Like, jeez! It was very tedious in the OG show, but we’re right back at it again here. 

Ron: I thought his true love was Elektra. Why isn’t he looking for her?

Mon: Please don’t ask me. I wish I knew.

Ron: Fingers crossed we see Elodie Yung again. We already got Jennifer Garner back for one movie. Now let’s have Elodie kick butt on screen again.

Mon: In general, though, there are some interesting character moments, enough to keep you immersed and guessing. It is a little weird to go back to watching something that has a much larger all-white cast. We’re unused to that. Or maybe, I’m still riding that high of Captain America: Brave New World. But, at least Born Again does have some people of colour in the supporting roles.

Ron: Yes, the characters of colour have interesting positions in this story. A few of them are voices of reason and they ground the story with their very real reactions to insane events.

Mon: But the supporting cast doesn’t have a big role. The one guy who does is a serious weak link. 

Mon: Now, this is a superhero show, so we need to talk about the action. I’ll state here that viewers expecting a fight scene every other scene are not going to get it. The original Daredevil show didn’t have that, and this one steers clear of being just a conglomeration of fights. 

Mon: The OG popularized hallway fight scenes. What was once seen as the sole prerogative of the Old Boy film, now seemed possible for everyone. We’ve seen tons now, of varying degrees. How did the action in Born Again hold up?

Ron: The first episode has a very long one-take action scene. I understand that this is what people expect from Daredevil. It’s not as slick as I thought it would be though. Kinda rough, the characters were moving a bit slowly. But I was impressed at how real it felt. Like this is how real life costumed people would try to fight each other. 

Mon: I really liked that one-take scene as well. But, am I nuts or was there way too much CGI background and smoke in there? It really ruined the intense feeling of the scene. And that scene is super-intense. But I couldn’t see past how wonky the CGI looked.

Ron: It didn’t bother me as much but I agree that it is noticeable enough to be distracting. 

Mon: It’s not evident in the first two episodes as much, but things get very gory, eh? You mentioned that the creative team ramped up the violence and got no notes from the powers-that-be. Some of the gore was hard to stomach.

Ron: The creative team has said that there was no obstruction to how much violence they included in this show. So yes, we did have to avert our eyes a few times.

Mon: This is going to sound so petty, but I’m so annoyed Marvel didn’t space out the release of Captain America: Brave New World and Born Again. I mean, they couldn’t give our first Black Captain America a whole month to bask in some glory? Seriously?

Ron: You know what, good point. I guess with 2024 having seen such a dearth of MCU fare, they’re trying to get as much out in a steady fashion. But the optics of giving Brave New World so little alone time with the fan base isn’t great. 

Mon: Shall we turn to criticisms of the show. For me, the CGI was a sore point. Not just during that long action scene in episode one, but later too, with some backgrounds and some aerial shots. What was that about? Anything bother you?

Ron: The CGI wasn’t really bothering me. It was a distraction but it wasn’t as bad as say Multiverse of Madness or Quantumania. My only criticism so far is that, as the audience, we’re given a bit too much plot-related information. I want to be more in Matt’s shoes. There’s a character that Matt implicitly believes but why is that when he didn’t see what we did? I think a crucial scene should have been cut so we had exactly the amount of information that Matt did. However, that was a solid action scene so I’m glad it’s there. Plot-wise, though, not the best choice. 

Mon: I don’t necessarily agree with that argument. We’re spending plenty of time with the characters. And, Matt’s super-hearing gives him insights that we wouldn’t have. 

Ron: Okay, I do have a criticism. The super-hearing is way too convenient. I may not have watched the OG show but was it always this powerful? He can hear things from blocks away!

Mon: Good point, and I don’t know if it was that powerful before. I will say that, in the first episode, his super-hearing is to his detriment, and I freaking loved how they turned the tables on him. But after that, yeah, it makes things too easy. 

Mon: I didn’t have much against the storytelling, especially in the first two episodes, and then the next two or three. But around the half-way mark, I got frustrated that it still wasn’t clear where the story was headed. Or what the message was. And, we saw very little of the world outside of Fisk and Matt’s circles. 

Ron: Circles that are sometimes concentric, and sometimes, they overlap.

Mon: Oooooo. Nice imagery. There’s a lot of telling in the latter half, not much showing. It’s like they ran out of budget to shoot in the streets with large groups of people. My worry was where it was going or what it would eventually tell us. Well, guess what – they don’t actually tell us why they’re juxtaposing these two characters. It’s a bunch of scenes which are great to watch, but what’s the through-line? We’ve been burned by Marvel stuff before – things are looking great, and then they cop out on the messaging and the cohesion. It’s not so bad with Born Again, but I certainly felt the lack of cohesion in this season.

Mon: Ok, so we’ve danced around something. It’s a big spoiler so we won’t go into details. But I am annoyed – even though I’m not attached to these characters – that the creatives are using some characters as bait to get people to watch the show. I hate it when they do that!

Ron: For superheroes, the people around them are crucial to making them who they are. It’s okay to take them out of their comfort zone from time to time; it makes for good character growth. 

Mon: Like in Captain America: Brave New World, where Sam Wilson isn’t with the person he knows best, but there are other relationships to explore.

Ron: Yes, as much as we missed Sam’s usual group, he had strong enough connections with the new cast for it to be worthwhile. But when the show is titled and positioned as a sequel to the OG, one would expect the protagonist to have the same cast of characters around him. I am struggling with the fact that that is not the case in this show. I don’t know how well people will react to Matt’s change in circumstances. 

Mon: Speaking of only the first two episodes, Daredevil: Born Again only just touches the surface of gore. This show gets much more violent and gory soon after – you can feel that without even watching the rest of the show. 

Mon: But, I like that there’s still a touch of humour. And there are a ton of vibrant daylight scenes and well-lit buildings. Plus, we have those candid interviews that break the monotony of the story. Not that Born Again is monotonous. I like that it feels realistic in so many ways.

Ron: I expected this to be the tone so I’m not at all surprised. But I’m a bit sad not to have the lighter, kinder version of Matt that we got in The Defenders and She-Hulk. Matt the jerk is not my favourite.

Ron: Despite Matt being annoying, would you watch more? They’ve already been picked up for a second season.

Mon: I’m in, for sure. They leave you wanting more, so I like that. I was riveted throughout the series, especially the first five episodes. I liked that they decided to make the story a procedural and that it’s about the characters not the plot.

Ron: The first season isn’t a standalone. It’s meant to be watched as a precursor to another season. I do wish we’d known that because I’m quite used to Marvel shows having a complete arc every season.

Mon: I already knew they’d been picked up, so that didn’t bother me. However, I did feel that they started to lose cohesion near the end of the season. At episode six, I started wondering what the show was really about. And what it was trying to tell us. You should have some direction halfway through the season, and I felt it never got there. 

Mon: The show is married to the premise that the Kingpin and Daredevil are connected—but simply juxtaposing their actions isn’t enough to demonstrate that idea. It looks amazing, sure—all those visual refrains and callbacks to each character, looks great. But what is it trying to say? And, is the show asking the right questions? Or, simply asking them to get the answers it wants?

Ron: This season uses match cuts quite a bit to show Kingpin and Daredevil as two sides to the same coin. But that metaphor doesn’t pan out on the story level. Will we get a conclusion to that in the next season? We’ll have to wait and see.

Mon: I did find it a little bloody and gory near the end. Fair warning to anyone averse to such things.

Ron: Oh yeah. I had to close my eyes and look away. One episode got so bloody, I needed a break. Do not watch this show during dinner, people.

Mon: I also felt they reel us in with one premise, and then turn the tables. It’s a very Marvel thing to do. I didn’t dislike it, but I preferred the vibe of the first half of the season. 

Ron: Also, all those cameos! Some of them felt like they were being used just to hook Marvel fans in. I don’t know how people will react to that. Again, I’m not that deeply connected to Daredevil and his crew so I wasn’t that bothered. But how will the Daredevil fans feel?

Mon: Yeah, I wonder too. 

Mon: I’m definitely invested in watching season 2. I just hope Matt Murdock is written better, because I began to dislike him by the end of this season.