Mon: Hello and welcome to a new episode of Stereo Geeks. Today, we’re chatting about the show The Last of Us. I’m Mon.
Ron: And I’m Ron. This is going to be a spoiler-filled review, so if you haven’t caught up with both seasons of The Last of Us, then please do so and then come back to us.
Mon: Before we start our episode, we would like to acknowledge that the land we are recording on is the traditional territory of many nations, including the Mississaugas of the Credit, the Anishnabeg, the Chippewa, the Haudenosaunee and the Wendat peoples. It is now home to many diverse First Nations, Inuit and Métis peoples. We also acknowledge that Toronto is covered by Treaty 13 with the Mississaugas of the Credit.
Ron: While we are making this land acknowledgement, we understand that this is not enough and that positive action is required by the people of Canada to make substantive change for the Indigenous nations and communities whose lands we now reside on.
[Music]
Mon: So, The Last of Us. We were late to this party.
Ron: Yes, but with good reason. We’d seen screenshots of the clickers and cordyceps, and we were like, yeah, this is not happening.
Mon: I was not prepared to be grossed out by the creatures, but I knew we were missing out on something big. I’m glad we finally decided to give it a try.
Ron: With the hype around Season 2 starting up, we couldn’t ignore the show any more. I’m glad we powered through.
Mon: The monsters aren’t all that bad. In the show at least. I don’t think I could stomach the game though.
Ron: Yeah, that’s a no. I’m so tempted to get the game, but I’m not brave enough. It’s widely known as one of the scariest games ever. I’m not going to tangle with that. The show, however, is another story. What did you think about the first two seasons?
Mon: First season was outstanding. That was just something else.
Ron: I didn’t know what to expect from Season 1. Alongside Shogun, The Last of Us was being hailed as the return of great television. People highly praised Pedro Pascal and Bella Ramsay, as well as the storytelling. Could it live up to the hype? Yes, it could.
Mon: The first episode has one of the best car sequences ever. Nothing in the show is ever going to live up to that. And, of course, there was EP 3, which is still one of the most outstandingly romantic and heart-warming episodes of TV I’ve ever seen.
Ron: I was hooked from episode 1. Pedro and Gabriel Luna as brothers Joel and Tommy Miller, are little dimwits. But they’re an adorable family with Joel’s daughter Sarah, played by Nico Parker. And then, bam, infections, people acting weird and scary. And of course, by the end of the pilot, Sarah has been killed and Joel and Tommy are utterly destroyed. I agree that episode 3 of the first season sealed the deal for me. I fell in love with the storytelling.
Mon: While I wasn’t overly concerned about Season 2, I can say it doesn’t quite have the cohesiveness and impact of Season 1. I could feel the struggle to keep the mystery alive, while adding in characters and plot.
Ron: Oh wow. That is not how I feel about Season 2. It feels like the first season did all the heavy lifting of building the world and the impact the cordyceps have had on humanity. And Season 2 took it to a whole new level with the characters. We already know this world, so here’s some more danger. You think the infected are scary? No, how about real people and the monsters they are? That’s what I loved about Season 2.
Mon: Before we go deep into Season 2, let’s briefly go over what happens here.
Joel and Ellie are safely ensconced in Jackson, Wyoming
Tommy and Maria are the leaders of the town
We meet Dina, played by Isabela Merced, Ellie’s love interest
Dina has an on-again-off-again relationship with Jesse, played by Young Mazino
Things get worse though, because peril is everywhere
You wanna chat about the perils?
Ron: Yep. There’s a lot happening this season.
The cordyceps have evolved. There are now stalkers, and full-on armies to battle
They’re also air-borne and growing in Jackson
The Wolves – a faction of the Firelies in Seattle – are at war with a cult-ish group called the Seraphites. Both groups are horrifying and violent
And, a rogue group of Wolves, lead by Kaitlyn Dever’s Abby, are out to get Joel for what he did at the end of Season 1.
Mon: Speaking of Joel, we should talk about the central relationship of the show, aka, Ellie and Joel. Their evolution during the first season into becoming a daughter and father powered the narrative.
Ron: Yeah, but Joel and Ellie aren’t on talking terms when the season opens. And we don’t know till the penultimate episode what that’s all about.
Mon: Oh yeah. That’s a huge departure from where they were in Season 1. Especially at the end when Ellie is so trusting of Joel. She takes his promise about what happened to the Fireflies as truth. We knew that would unravel in this season, but it plays out very differently than we expected.
Ron: Absolutely. They didn’t exactly get along in Season 1 but Ellie was infectiously adorable–pardon the pun. She broke through Joel’s cold, hard exterior. And honestly, Season 1 was so relentlessly depressing, Ellie was always such a breath of fresh air.
Ron: Starting the second season with them on the outs put a real dampener on the situation. But Ellie still manages to be vivacious and funny and charming.
Mon: Yeah, even after EP 2, when Abby fulfils her promise, and literally beats Joel to death, Ellie keeps that spark alive.
Ron: She’s dealing with such a great loss–her only parent figure brutally murdered right in front of her–and she still manages to be a delight. And thank goodness for that–without Bella Ramsay’s enthusiasm, this season would be horrific and intolerable to watch.
Mon: But wait, let’s not skip over that major twist in EP 2. I did not expect them to kill off Joel in EP 2. I knew he wasn’t gonna make it through the season – I haven’t played the game, but I figured as much – but EP 2? Really?
Ron: People who’ve played the games knew to expect that Joel would die this season. But most of the time, a major character’s death happens at the end of the season. But not with this show. Episode 2, whack, Joel’s dead. It’s a very clever storytelling decision. We spent all of the first season loving Joel and Ellie and their bond. And then Joel’s gone when we’ve hardly managed to get used to being back with him. The suddenness of it all also makes Ellie’s actions easier to understand. We don’t condone them, but we understand them.
Mon: Joel dying does give Ellie and Dina more screen time. Which is great, because I think Dina’s great. She’s flighty, and trope-y, and still unique.
Ron: Do we think Dina’s trope-y? I really like her. She’s got a solid head on her shoulders but still knows when to lighten up.
Mon: She’s initially written as trope-y, but that’s deliberate. The pretty girl who our protagonist is in love with. The one who’s indecisive, and always dangling the carrot of possibilities. But Dina is more than that. She’s resilient, and smart. And kind.
Ron: True. I really enjoyed watching them.
Mon: But the other characters got short shrift – like they ran out of budget to give everyone enough screen time. I also think they – I guess the studio heads – wanted to keep stuff for Season 3, and that may have stretched things a bit thin in Season 2.
Ron: There I have to agree. It was the Ellie and Dina show, and I cannot say I mind that. Their love story is a joy to behold.
Mon: Look, I love that we got to spend so much time with Dina and Ellie, and seeing their relationship blossom. They’re wonderful.
Ron: The scene with Ellie singing Take On Me? Tears! I couldn’t even understand why I was crying. But then I saw Dina was crying too, and I was like, you know what, Ellie serenading us is worth a few tears.
Mon: Oh yeah, totally. Probably my favourite moment this season.
Ron: Also the penultimate episode with Ellie and Joel. The birthdays that they celebrate together, those were precious. Joel taking her to the museum with the dinosaur and the shuttle? This is why I’m really enjoying Bella Ramsay as Ellie. They have such an infectious joy to them and yet they capture the malice and hatred Ellie has for Abby. It’s a duality that would be hard or corny to pull off but they do a fantastic job.
Mon: The early birthday scenes. Awwwww. They were so adorable. I was like, gosh Joel is such an amazing Dad. And Ellie is such a sweet kid.
Ron: Yes! He makes the most of those second chances that he was denied with Sarah. That entire sequence was wonderful and I couldn’t stop smiling. Of course, it all goes pear-shaped.
Mon: Yeah, it doesn’t last long. Ellie grows up, she becomes older than Sarah had ever been. And Joel struggles with that. I almost wanted a little more of that ‘cause they do skip a birthday.
Ron: Yes! There’s not much joy in the The Last of Us universe so yes, I wanted them to eke out every birthday.
Mon: Them falling out is because of a few things. It festers in Ellie before blowing up because Joel kills one of their companions who got bit.
Ron: Eugene, played by Joe Pantoliano. He was the husband of Gail, played by Catherine O’Hara, Jackson’s resident psychologist. We learn in the first episode of this season that Joel killed Eugene but we had to wait to find out what that was all about. And it’s the downfall of the relationship between Ellie and Joel—how easily he could lie to her about something as horrible as killing a man before he could say goodbye to his wife.
Mon: Yeah, the tension between them makes sense after the penultimate episode. And it boils down to the little things. It’s the blatant lying that angers Ellie, but for Joel, he can’t see beyond keeping Ellie safe. It’s so sweet, if also quite horrific.
Ron: But even after their falling out, that bond between them is so strong. At the end of Season 1, we kept wondering, what will Ellie do when she finds out what Joel did to the Fireflies. And the decision by the storytellers, of the game and the show, was so unexpected. Ellie chooses to forgive Joel. It was kind of a relief to know that Joel didn’t die while they were still fighting, but they kept us on tenterhooks for a while. In the game, that scene between Ellie and Joel happens at the very end! Mercifully, we did not have to wait that long.
Mon: Joel and Ellie get incredible moments this season. But what about the others? Because Jesse’s dead by the end of the season, and we knew nothing about him. Tommy’s so amazing, and Maria’s a rock, but they get no screen time. It’s such a waste of these amazing characters and actors.
Ron: I didn’t get nearly enough of Tommy, Maria, and Jesse. By the end of the season, I really wanted to know more about the people of Jackson and their lives.
Ron: We should probably add that we don’t just love Tommy the character. We’ve been fond of Gabriel Luna since he was Robbie Reyes, the Ghost Rider, on Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. And we met him a couple of years ago at Gotham Central, and he was a darling. So, yeah, we want to see more of Tommy!
Mon: Yep, he’s a huge draw for us for those reasons, but also because Tommy’s a sweetie, and we want to see him being a leader.
Ron: Yes, the Latino lads are a big attraction in The Last of Us - Pedro, Gabriel, and now Danny Ramirez, aka the new Falcon in Marvel.
Mon: Yeah, so little of Ramirez too. But I’m expecting there to be a ton more in Season 3, especially if it’s the Abby show.
Ron: Abby’s entire crew got short shrift this season. They’re almost all known faces, at least to me. Tati Gabrielle, I’ve seen her in Sabrina. Ariela Barer was in Runaways. Then there’s Ramirez. The only person I haven’t seen is Spencer Lord. I couldn’t figure out why they were given so little screentime until the end of this season. The upcoming season will be Abby’s story and we’ll get more time with her group.
Ron: Instead of waiting for the next season, though, we could have got more bottle episodes about these characters in Season 2. I honestly really missed the bottle episodes of Season 1 this time around.
Mon: Yes! The bottle episodes were so amazing. They filled out the world that wasn’t directly tied to what Joel and Ellie were doing. We desperately needed that this season. Like those few bits with the Seraphites and Isaac – who are these people? I wanted to spend time with them when they weren’t being, you know, evil beyond measure.
Ron: The Seraphites and Isaac are probably going to have a bigger role in the next season. Which is a little bit terrifying because these two groups are very gory. I prefer the cordyceps to them.
Mon: I also wish we’d seen more of the cordyceps this season of The Last of Us.
Ron: Which is a crazy thing to say because they are so creepy!
Mon: Yeah, the stalkers are so creepy and cool. But we kinda forget about them being the biggest deal after the big showdown in EP 2. I get that the real bads are the evil humans, but I want to not stress about the awfulness of humanity for an episode or two.
Ron: We had some excellent moments with the cordyceps, though. That scene in Episode 2 where Abby is getting crushed by the gates with all those cordyceps attacking her. Claustrophobic and terrifying. Even that chase scene just before. Ufff. The adrenaline was through the roof.
Mon: For sure. The stalkers showing up in Seattle too. Amazing and scary.
Ron: I love and hate the stalkers. The camerawork for the stalkers was excellent, especially in, I believe Episode 5 of this season. The way they’re in shadow and then they’re running towards the camera. Got me hiding under the blankets!
Mon: Yeah, but they’re totally absent in the finale.
Ron: Yes, because Season 2 is about Ellie’s revenge. The stalkers and the other cordyceps are essentially getting in her way. Abby is the villain of this season. And who knows who’ll be the villain next season.
Mon: My question to you is, post Season 2 finale, how do we feel? I’m a little gutted to be honest. I felt like this after the first season finale too, but more so after Season 2. Joel and Ellie massacre people to save the people they love. It’s indiscriminate, and heartless. And I’m like, I don’t think I like them very much, any more.
Ron: You’re not supposed to. The Last of Us is an awful world to be living in. Joel and Ellie are doing awful things throughout these two seasons to supposedly protect or avenge those they love. But that just makes them as awful as everyone and everything else. Joel died because of his actions. Did he deserve to die that way? No. But he had it coming. If it wasn’t Abby, it would be some other poor soul who’s loved one he murdered.
Mon: Ok, that’s fair. That makes me feel better. It’s just tough, because they’re our protagonists, and we love them. But then they do these unthinkable acts, and I’m like I can’t like you any more. I’m glad the story also shows us that what Joel did was wrong. But what about Ellie?
Ron: Ellie is where Joel’s real failure lies. Yes, he loved her. She wasn’t just a daughter, she was a second chance. She was his redemption. He mucked it up by killing all those Fireflies. But worse, he showed Ellie that revenge and death was the only way of life for them. So Ellie went out and got revenge and she hurt people; she killed poor Mel who was heavily pregnant. Just after Ellie finds out she’s going to be a dad with Dina! This is a terrible lesson for her to learn. And it’s Joel’s fault. I’m sorry to say.
Mon: Right. We’ll get to see the other side of the story in the next season. Ellie should be rightfully demonized, but it’s quite sad that, well, she’s turned into a villain.
Ron: Yes, indeed. That’s the whole point of this season. It reiterates that revenge is not healthy. Nobody wins when everyone wants vengeance. Joel wanted to save Ellie but he killed so many in the process. And as a result, he set Abby and her troupe on a mission of revenge. Abby succeeded–she got her revenge by killing Joel. But that set Ellie on a path to revenge. And now she’s gone and killed practically all of Abby’s group. And as a result, Jesse’s dead! Look at how much death there is–and it’s all because Joel wanted to save Ellie.
Mon: Wow, that’s just great. It’s the wild west out there in The Last of Us. It’s horrid, but does make for more complicated storytelling than we’re used to.
Ron: We don’t even know Tommy’s side of the story yet. He wanted to go and hunt down Abby with Ellie, but he decided to abide by the decision of the Jackson people and stay back. But then, why was he sniping all those Wolves in Seattle?
Mon: So, apparently, in the game Tommy has a more intertwined role with the story. But they scrapped that — or changed it on the show. I don’t know why though.
Ron: I believe some people are upset about that. And as we’ve said, we would have loved to see more of Tommy. But if we’re going to essentially have a new protagonist every season, the focus on Ellie in Season 2 really makes sense. Having said that, if we’d got 9 episodes instead of 7, like we did this time, we may have had more room for scenes with the people of Jackson, like Maria, Tommy, and Jesse.
Mon: I really like The Last of Us, but with Season 2, I really wanted more of the characters. And I wanted more layers to the storytelling. Do you think we’ll get that in Season 3?
Ron: We probably will, but with Abby’s group and the Wolves. Which is going to be interesting because we’ll see more of Isaac and the Seraphites. I’m a bit terrified of what that’s going to entail but I’m intrigued.
Mon: This show is a definite much-watch. The creatures aren’t too horrid-looking, and the characters are so engrossing. Yeah, Season 2 was not as polished as the first, but let’s see what the next one has in store for us.
Ron: I can’t wait to see what happens next. This world is fascinating and horrifying, yet there are moments of such beauty and joy. I’m really loving The Last of Us!