Listen to the episode on Spotify.

Mon: Hello and welcome to a new episode of Stereo Geeks. Today, we’re reviewing Wicked: For Good. I’m Mon. 

Ron: And I’m Ron. We are going into spoilers for both Wicked films. So, be warned.

Mon: Before we start our episode, we would like to acknowledge that the land we are recording on is the traditional territory of many nations, including the Mississaugas of the Credit, the Anishnabeg, the Chippewa, the Haudenosaunee and the Wendat peoples. It is now home to many diverse First Nations, Inuit and Métis peoples. We also acknowledge that Toronto is covered by Treaty 13 with the Mississaugas of the Credit.

Ron: While we are making this land acknowledgement, we understand that this is not enough and that positive action is required by the people of Canada to make substantive change for the Indigenous nations and communities whose lands we now reside on.

[Music]

Ron: So where did we leave Wicked?

Mon: At the end of the first film, Elphaba, played by Cynthia Erivo, and Glinda, played by Ariana Grande-Butera, had formed a new friendship despite being rivals at the start. They both had their eyes on dashing Fiyero, Jonathan Bailey, and they had gone off on, what should have been, an unforgettable visit to see the Wizard of Oz, played in this series by Jeff Goldblum. 

Ron: Except things went sideways when the Wizard’s true intentions were revealed. He has no magical abilities, so he used his associate, Michelle Yeoh’s Madame Morrible, to manipulate a strong, young sorcerer to do his bidding. 

Mon: Said sorcerer was none other than Elphaba. She took it upon herself to read the magical Grimmerie, but refused to join forces with the Wizard. And so, she was cast out as a wicked witch and flew away to the West. 

Mon: And now the conclusion.

Ron: Wrong universe, bro.

Mon: Ok! So, what did we think about Wicked: For Good? No spoiler version.

Ron: I enjoyed myself. The production was once again astoundingly beautiful. The sets, the costumes, my goodness, what a treat to watch on the big screen. There were some wonderful emotional moments that had me full-on crying. And some twists. I was completely lost in the film.

Mon: I’m glad you enjoyed yourself. I didn’t not enjoy it. But it wasn’t the cohesive narrative that we got in the first film. Here, it felt a lot like they were hurtling through the story beats. We jumped from character to character, scene to scene, especially at the start. It was like, whoa, hold on a minute, let me feel something. We got that in part 1. 

Ron: There, I agree. The first film had a very strong structure–Elphaba’s childhood and upbringing, her meeting Glinda at the school, their enemies to friends story. And, of course, the betrayal by Madame Morrible and the Wizard. In Wicked: For Good, there’s a lot to wrap up, and a ton of locations. Jumping through all of them is dizzying.

Mon: Yeah, I felt like it was a lot more choppy, you know. The first film gave us these long sequences that showed us who these characters were. Here, there were emotional beats that, well, some of them just didn’t feel earned. Which diminished some of the motivations. It’s really odd, because I felt like we got less of almost all the characters, even though this isn’t a short film.

Ron: Oh, interesting. I felt quite the opposite. I was surprised by how much time we got with all the characters! Elphaba has to go through this entire identity crisis about goodness and wickedness. Glinda surpasses her own vapidness and realises loving Elphaba means growing a backbone. Fiyero finally takes a stand and makes something of himself. Nessarose, played by Marissa Bode, takes a darker path, which she blames on Elphaba, but really it’s their father who’s at fault. Boq, Ethan Slater, really goes through it, poor man. And the Wizard and Morrible get some great scheming moments. Okay, I actually think Morrible could have had more screen time.

Mon: Ok, but what about the songs? Part 1 had some good ones that stuck out. This one seemed to be a ton of reprises. And nothing stuck. 

Ron: Listen, I don’t know what to do with musicals. The songs never work for me. In the moment, I’m in the world and if the song is progressing the story, great. But it’s very rare for me to recall any Broadway songs. I did love “Defying Gravity” from the first film and was really hoping it would be reprised somehow in Wicked: For Good, but it wasn’t. I actually didn’t mind the other reprises. I liked that we were nodding to where these characters started and where they’d ended up.

Mon: I don’t mean to be negative. It was good. But Wicked was great.

Mon: Now, on to the spoilers. 

Ron: Alright, spoilers. If you haven’t seen Wicked: For Good, turn away now. What do you want to start with?

Mon: Ok, the Boq transformation. Did that freak you out?

Ron: Yes, it was most unsettling. I had no idea what was going to happen.

Mon: It was creepy, right? I wasn’t expecting that. That was not in the book, which I’ve had the misfortune of reading. But I realized just before he became the Tin Man, what was happening. Once I saw the cowardly lion, I was like… ok, we’re going to see all of them. I did hear the clang of metal before Boq kicked down the door, so I wanna say I was at least prepared.

Ron: I saw the metal on his fingers, but I wasn’t sure what that meant. But when he burst through the door. Shudder. Look, Nessarose and Boq, they should’ve been the sweetest couple but Boq had to go and make his affection for Glinda obvious in the first film. And then in this film, it seems like he’s been with Nessa for a while, but as Governor, she’s toeing the wizarding line. So Boq decides to leave, which only makes her more angry! The fact that Nessa institutes a rule that neither animals nor munchkins can travel without her authorization? It’s just too close to what’s happening in the USA right now.

Mon: Very true. The book touched on such subjects as well. Nessarose is pretty evil there too. She’s tamer here. Bit disappointed her entire arc is, basically, a woman scorned.

Ron: That’s interesting. I hate that something written in the 90s is so relevant now. How is she different in the book?

Mon: Oh, I don’t remember the specifics. She has more page time to be the Wicked Witch of the East. 

Ron: No way. That’s a throwaway line in the film. We could have got more? Now I’m disappointed. 

Mon: I told you. So much happened in this film, and yet…

Ron: Oh dear. I liked that Nessa becomes so controlling that she reads from the Grimerie without understanding it. Which is what leads to poor Boq’s heart disappearing and Elphaba’s attempts to help him turn him into the Tin Man. This is tragic.

Mon: If I’m remembering correctly, there’s some clandestine gay romances happening in Boq’s circle. Can’t remember if Boq is involved or not. Boq is a driving force behind the rebellion in the book. He got short shrift in the film.

Ron: No! Dang, I did feel like Boq disappeared too soon but wow, that’s a whole subplot gone. That is really unfortunate.

Mon: What are your thoughts on Fiyero’s arc?

Ron: Well, I did not expect that!

Mon: So, once the Boq thing happened, I figured out Fiyero was going to become the Scarecrow. Now, I repeat, this doesn’t happen in the book. The second half of the book is really bleak. Elphaba’s off on her own for a lot of it. She meets up with Fiyero when he’s married with kids – he’s not with Glinda in the book. Elphaba and Fiyero have a clandestine affair in the book, before he’s carted off to jail. Get this, they also have a kid. It’s… a lot. 

Ron: Wait what? That is a lot! I think I prefer the movie version. I didn’t expect to see Dorothy and the others in this movie. And I’m afraid I didn’t clock Cowardly Lion. It was only when Boq turned into Tin Man that I realised we might see the other characters. But who’d have thought Fiyero’s fate would be to become the Scarecrow? Poor Fiyero!

Mon: I know. Poor guy. But Jon M. Chu did everything in his power to leave us hanging. We never really see Fiyero die. Just shots of him being hit while he’s strung up – like a scarecrow – in a corn field. And we never get a close up of the scarecrow, till the very end, during the reveal. 

Ron: True. I liked the way the movie kept the suspense. There was almost a Brokeback Mountain-like quality to Elphaba trying to protect Fiyero from afar. It was heartbreaking.

Mon: Yes! I had the same thought. But, the Wicked: For Good story gives Elphaba and Fiyero a much happier ending than the book, and Brokeback. Albeit a Shrek-like ending, because they’re both outsiders and don’t look like the norm. But I’m so happy Elphaba gets someone, even though her heart really belongs to Glinda. 

Ron: Okay, is it a happy ending? I mean, Elphaba and Fiyero’s love story was really sweet. I did enjoy it and it made me a bit emotional. Cynthia Erivo and Jonathan Bailey bring the chemistry. I love the fact that we get a monstrous woman–she’s not really, she’s just green. But in the world of the film, Elphaba is a monster. And yes, the two of them are together at the end, but they are outside Oz. Elphaba has a whole song about how much she loves Oz, her home. And she has to leave it behind. Plus, they both leave Glinda. It’s bittersweet.

Mon: So, let’s talk about Elphaba and Glinda. I loved how their friendship was formed in the first film. That party scene where Glinda joins Elphaba’s weird dance. It was so emotional. The first film was their love story, and I was super concerned that that would be forgotten in part 2. 

Ron: I love that we have stories where it’s two women being friends. The world of Oz won’t let them be but they try to make it happen. And Glinda and Elphaba change each other, for the better, as they sing so beautifully near the end of the film. 

Mon: For a lot of the film, we don’t get Glinda and Elphaba together. I was like, oh no. But they sort of, kept coming back to each other after the first act. And in the end, they have this extended, emotional scene professing their love for each other. It was delightful. 

Ron: Yes! Got me emotional, not gonna lie. Elphaba had no one in her life. Her father’s hatred for her was plain to see. Nessarose at least cared for Elphaba, but her love was conditional. She saw Elphaba as an embarrassment. Glinda, despite all her faults, and her loathing for Elphaba, realises that Elphaba deserves love and kindness, just like anybody else does. And on Elphaba’s part, despite the lack of love in her life, despite being so quick to reject others, she gives Glinda a chance, and she is loved in return.

Mon: But the film doubling down on Glinda and Elphaba’s love kinda makes it even more heartbreaking. Elphaba has to live without Glinda, knowing she’s alive in Oz. And Glinda has to live believing she could do nothing to prevent her best friend being killed. I can’t believe the final shot of the film, which just showed us Elphaba walking away with her scarecrow boyfriend, is of Glinda and Elphaba. It’s… so lovely to see female friendship celebrated like this.

Ron: Agreed, a thousand percent. And that final shot is a nod to the Broadway poster!

Mon: OHHHHHHHHH! How did I not recognize that? So clever!

Ron: Now that we’ve discussed what we loved, I know that we have some criticisms of Wicked: For Good.

Mon: I’ll get this out of the way – the Jeff Goldblum aging down. Terrible CGI. Totally took me out of the reveal.

Ron: So surprising to see the de-aging look so poor. Indiana Jones and the Dial of Destiny did such a good job, and for a prolonged period of time!

Mon: Also, some of the film was predictable. The Wizard is Elphaba’s dad! No kidding. Ok, it’s in the book, but by then I’d mentally switched off, so I forgot. But it was obvious.

Ron: Now, hang on just a minute. I did not predict that!

Mon: What? Dude, they didn’t show him in the first film for a reason. Who else could he be?

Ron: My cynical brain thought Elphaba’s dad was related to Fiyero somehow. Blame The Mortal Instruments.

Mon: Ewwwwwwwwww. Noooooo. I don’t even wanna… Ugh. 

Ron: Sorry. You said the book was weird.

Mon: Funny. Ok, so, one of the things that kept bugging me no end during this film was water. As we know, the Wicked Witch is undone by water in the OG film. Maybe in the book, I don’t know. In the Wicked book, Elphaba is written as allergic to water. Her tears hurt her. 

Ron: Yes, the whole water plot line completely threw me. Where did this information come from? How do so many people in Oz have theories about it? Why would water, of all things, hurt someone?

Mon: None of this plays a part in the first film. But suddenly, in this film Fiyero’s threatening her with water. And I was like, what the heck. Where’s the consistency? Where’d this come from? Anyway, I ended up with egg on my face, because the deception is the whole point!

Ron: I wouldn’t say you had egg on your face. We didn’t need to have been privy to the deception, but some inkling as to where the rumour started would have helped.

Mon: Did you notice that it was Fiyero who was spreading the water rumour?

Ron: Really? No, I didn’t! In the opening scene, I saw a headline in a newspaper. And then that red-suited man sings about it at the ceremony.

Mon: Oh it was definitely him. It was clever though, right? That way, he was, kind of, setting up a way for Elphaba to escape. And it works!

Ron: It is clever but I totally missed that Fiyero was doing it! I thought he was just going with the flow. Pardon the pun.

Mon: Haha. And, while it’s not clear in the film, the final battle takes place in Fiyero’s castle, the one with the secret hideouts. Which is how he knows where to look for her. 

Ron: Wait a second? What? No. I… come on. I didn’t notice any of that. I was wondering where this new hideout came from. So, Elphaba and Fiyero planned all this? When?

Mon: I don’t think they planned it. Otherwise she would have known to expect a scarecrow. But she makes a stand in his castle, and he knew where to go because Dorothy would have told him.

Ron: I clearly need to rewatch this film. You know, these aren’t really criticisms, are they?

Mon: I complained a lot already.

Ron: Well, as someone who really loved Wicked, the first film, has very little memory of The Wizard of Oz, and hasn’t read the book, Wicked: For Good was a satisfying conclusion. Could it have been better? Yes. Did I enjoy it despite the fact I missed a few things? Also, yes. I got emotional. I got to watch two women being friends. I got a cute love story. I got an absolute feast for the senses with the visual design. Bad guys got their comeuppance, good guys got to live. I’m happy with this.

Mon: I liked Wicked: For Good. It did not, however, get me as involved or emotional like part 1. I’m going to blame the choppyness, and intense pace. Also, the weird tonal shifts. That’s pretty reminiscent of the book, though – it was a weird read. 

Ron: Yeah, I don’t see myself reading the book. It sounds very odd. The movies seem to have made some wise changes.

Mon: Never read the book. Seriously, not worth it. This movie doesn’t feel like the Oscar-bait of the first one. But I feel like it needs a second watch to really get those nuances. 

Ron: Indeed, it does. I can’t wait for this film to be out on digital so I can bask in it again. What about you, listeners? What did you think of Wicked: For Good?