This is Part 1 of the episode transcript.
For a more detailed look at the show, check out Ron’s extensive recaps at Show Snob.
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Falcon and the Winter Soldier: How the Flag-Smashers Highlight Marvel's Problem with Sympathetic Villains
Ron: Welcome to a new Stereo Geeks Special! This week, we’re talking about The Falcon and the Winter Soldier! I'm Ron.
Mon: And I’m Mon. Please be warned, we will be covering all six episodes of the show, and yes, there will be spoilers. If you haven't watched the show yet, check it out and then come back.
Ron: So, The Falcon and the Winter Soldier. Thoughts?
Mon: Well, remember how we felt after Disney Investor Day, when the trailer came out? People were hyped. You and I were worried. We thought that some of the bro-y relationship stuff was a little bit manufactured. We were worried that Disney was, as always, trying to sell us something which they wouldn't deliver. I gotta say, they proved us wrong.
Ron: I was very tentative about the series, especially because we did really enjoy WandaVision. That show was quite different. It wasn't trying to be just an extension of the MCU. The Falcon and the Winter Soldier definitely feels grounded in the mythos of the MCU. The visuals are very similar. The musical motifs are exactly from the movies that we've already seen. I think the trailer made it look a particular way, which kind of put us on the backfoot. I'm glad that the show actually didn't follow through with that tone.
Mon: Yeah, me too. I think with the trailer, we were worried that there was going to be this 80s, macho vibe, and considering that neither of these characters so far, Sam Wilson/ the Falcon, and Bucky Barnes/ the Winter Soldier, they've been really great characters all this while in the MCU. Yes, they’ve been side-characters, they really haven't been developed that much, so I was a little bit worried that the moment they’d get the spotlight, we're going to see them out of character. Thankfully, we did not.
Ron: In fact, I was actually quite surprised that throughout the six episodes they refer to so many aspects of the films, and give us more insight into events that would have happened probably in the background, and I didn't expect that, in all honesty. So, shall we break it down episode by episode and review it that way?
So, we start off with ‘New World Order’. This opening episode takes place six months after the events of Avengers: Endgame. Steve is gone. The mantle of Captain America is kind of up in the air. Sam is actually trying to take care of family stuff and Bucky is in therapy. I think for a lot of fans, and for us, as well, it was like, at the end of Endgame when Steve handed the shield to Sam, even though Sam was a little bit tentative, he was going to become Captain America. For ‘New World Order’ to actually have him not do that, that quite a departure from expectation.
Mon: But I guess the name of the show itself kind of signposted that. We kept wondering why it's called The Falcon and the Winter Soldier and not Captain America and the Winter Soldier, and it explains that. Because Sam is just not comfortable adopting this moniker. I guess in a way you could say he's not comfortable with that because of his own identity. I think it was kind of just thrusted on him, and he's trying to get used to the fact that he doesn't even have Steve in his life, and now he has to step into Steve’s shoes; it's a lot for one person to take in. Also, he literally just came back to life. It's too much!
Ron: And also, I think the reason why it's a little bit more burdensome for Sam is because Steve Rogers/ Captain America would have been an icon when he was in the military, and it just so happens that he becomes his friend, but for Sam, Steve Rogers was Captain America. It didn't make sense for there to be a Captain America without Steve Rogers. But for us as fans, we were like, what? No! Sam, you have to be the new Captain America. It made sense to us but for him it didn't make sense. And I thought that was interesting. It was not what we're expecting, especially for Sam's growth throughout the MCU. He has become an Avenger!
But then, that ending. Apparently, a lot of people knew that John Walker was going to be in the show and Wyatt Russell was going to be playing him, and I was just like, what? Because I never remember any of these things, so everything is a surprise to me. So, you have this whole thing with Sam giving up the shield, and it being put in this beautiful glass case, and there's this whole Smithsonian exhibit for Steve. And you can feel, you know, there's a lot of emotion and stuff. And we get a scene with Rhodey, which is great. I mean, Don Cheadle, is awesome as Rhodey and it's always great to see him. He’s only in that one scene, though, and I was just like, why? And then we have this moment, when it's being announced that the government has chosen a new Captain America, and this white dude who looks like the guy from Up, turn’s up and he's holding Steve’s shield! That really was like a dagger to the heart. And I thought it was very well done.
Mon: I thought so too. Even though we knew US Agent was going to join the show, and that US agent is actually John Walker, and in the comics, he has taken on the moniker of Captain America. I feel like despite knowing all that, the way the scene plays out, it's still so heartbreaking because we're looking at it through Sam's eyes, and he has, out of the goodness of his own heart, relinquished the title of Captain America. He's relinquished this shield which belonged to his friend, and the government just took that as, oh, we can do whatever we want with it. It was just a really well played out scene, even though it was pretty wordless.
Ron: Yeah, and I think the reason why it works is because throughout the first episode, we are seeing the problems that Sam and his sister are having because they are a Black family in America. And that's not something that has been touched on in the MCU. It's kind of like just happening in the background, it doesn't seem to affect the actual heroes. And here we see that, a hero or not, they still have problems. They can't get a bank loan! And the guy, on the one hand is like, I want a selfie with the Falcon, on the other hand, he's like, oh, you don't have any records for the last five years. Yeah, but he's been dead for five years! How's he gonna show you anything? And with this really infuriating scene, obviously the ending just made everything worse because you're like, oh okay so this is how Black hero gets treated. And this white guy from nowhere just gets handed one of the most symbolic icons in the country. So, it's quite an interesting start.
Mon: Yeah, I have to say. And we haven't even talked about the amazing opening action sequence with the Falcon. It is breathtaking. It really captured that original feeling that we had when the Falcon first took flight in Captain America: The Winter Soldier. And the production values were fantastic. We knew this was gonna happen, but still.
Ron: I think what surprised me about that opening action scene was that this was not TV quality. I think it's pretty good that Marvel is actually pouring in that kind of money into its limited series, and TV shows. It's kind of sad that they're doing it now, when Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. was on for seven seasons, we had all the Defenders shows, and they never got a look-see; they were always in the periphery, they were always on the outside. These are very intrinsically tied into the MCU and they've got a much bigger budget.
Mon: They’ve also got more eyeballs on them. I'm just saying.
Ron: Yeah, well, let's see what happens.
Mon: Yeah, totally. So, I think let's go into the second episode and we can talk a little bit more about Bucky, because his introduction into the show was a bit underwhelming and it sort of picks up from the second episode. So, ‘Star-Spangled Man’. This song, this title is synonymous with Steve Rogers. Not anymore! Because John Walker literally has this gigantic parade where they're singing an updated version of this song. And it's so dissociative, the entire experience of seeing somebody who is very obviously not Steve Rogers in the Captain America outfit, enjoying the crowd, greeting the crowd, and this song’s going on. I have to say, the showrunners do a really good job of tugging on that nostalgia that we have for the first Captain America film, while also hitting us in the gut with this realization that, yes, this is a new world order.
Ron: And it's so manipulative, right? The government obviously knows that the ‘Star-Spangled Man’ song was associated with Steve, and they've just taking that, and they're like, oh, it doesn't matter if there's a new person who's Captain America, the song still belongs to him. But Captain America was synonymous with Steve and has been all this while. And they’re going around just thrusting this person in our faces. And then you have that first interview with John Walker and he's trying to come across as really nice, and he's talking about how Steve feels like a spiritual brother to him. And Bucky’s face when he's watching that is so funny. [laughs] Because he's just sitting there on the floor, open-mouthed like, what is this guy talking about?
I feel kind of bad because John never stood a chance. From that first shot of him at the very end of the first episode, we hated him. Mainly because the shield belonged to Sam. The name ‘Captain America; belongs to Sam. But in the second episode, even when the show was trying to humanize him, we see his wife, we see his best friend Lemar, it doesn't matter. We’re still like, give us our shield back! And it just goes downhill from there.
Mon: Yeah, absolutely. The one good thing about John Walker taking on the mantle of Captain America is that Bucky and Sam are finally reunited. As we learn in the first episode, apparently Bucky has not been replying to Sam's texts. I think it's amazing that Sam is taking his role as Bucky’s friend and protector really, really seriously. Because, let's be honest, Sam hates Bucky.
Ron: And Sam rightfully has every reason to hate Bucky. The amount of trouble he caused Steve and Sam. And Steve could at least stay alive because he had the serum in him. Sam was just a normal guy! As he said, when people are shooting at Steve, Sam is usually in the way. And Bucky was the reason why people were shooting at them! These are the little things that I really loved because Steve mattered to both of them. Of course, Sam is going to be the bigger man and try and keep in touch with Bucky, despite what Bucky put him through. For Bucky to be the one who's like, no, I'm not gonna talk to this guy, I'm just like, saying what?
Those are the little things about Bucky’s characterization in the first episode that didn't quite work for me. I like the fact that he's in therapy. That's good. I like the fact that he's been given a pardon; he helped save the planet. But him ignoring the last vestige of Steve's connection to him just doesn't make sense.
Mon: I also think that the idea that Bucky would go back to square one just because Steve has left, it didn't sit right with me. He's living in Brooklyn, which is his hometown, but his apartment has no furniture. He only has a TV. I think he has a cell phone.
Ron: Yeah, he has a really old-fashioned cell phone, right?
Mon: Yeah. He goes to therapy, and he tries to make ‘amends’. As we find out later, he's not making amends. He's avenging his wrongs. It felt disingenuous to sort of write Bucky like he’s stuck in one place, not reaching out to the people who care about him. And they sort of tried to do this thing where the only way Bucky gets out of this funk is through some romantic entanglement. So, he goes out on a date with a waitress and then he abandons her halfway through. In contrast with Sam, who had so much depth in the first episode, I couldn't wait for episode 2 Bucky, because episode 1 Bucky was kind of badly written.
Ron: Yeah, he didn't work for me either. The moment he’s with Sam again in the second episode, things are much better. And I felt like it was a bit like Bucky doesn't work unless you have that direct MCU connection. Throughout the first episode, that's not really there. Like yes, we get a few flashbacks to the Winter Soldier and that sort of thing, but until he's with Sam, those other parts of Bucky’s life just don’t work.
Mon: Yeah, I was really happy when he confronted Sam in the second episode, and then that's it, they’re stuck together. After that, it really worked. They banter with each other, they do not get along, but they’re very good at working together. They're not a well-oiled machine, because as soon as the bad guys, the Flagsmashers get in their way, Bucky is totally stuck.
Ron: And they don't listen to each other. They go in different directions; they get into trouble. They have the added tension of John Walker and Lemar Hoskins turning up and actually doing a better job at fighting the Flagsmashers. Which is annoying, but also you kinda understand it because John and Lemar are good at fighting together. They've been fighting together for years. They're best friends. The reason why Steve and Bucky fought well together, Steve and Sam fought well together, is because he was best friends with both of them. Sam and Bucky? Disaster. And they end up losing that fight.
Mon: Yeah. With the second episode, again we’re sort of treading on eggshells with these two characters. But them being together and that chemistry between the two of them, it really works to get us interested in this show.
Ron: And the fact that the two of them have a common enemy, they both dislike John Walker, so that kind of ends up giving them a reason to bond. Because otherwise, I don't think they would have had a reason to actually speak to each other. And from then on, it becomes a lot smoother. And of course, by the end of ‘Star-Spangled Man’, we get another MCU character, Zemo. As far as I'm concerned, from all the MCU villains, Zemo was the only one who succeeded. It was definitely exciting to have Zemo back and we got to see a lot more of him in the third episode, ‘Power Broker’.
The prison breakout was unexpectedly funny, especially because Bucky is kind of standing there telling Sam, hypothetically, if Zemo were to break out, this is how it would happen, and then he's actually made sure that Zemo did break out. And you’re like, why would you do that? We understand, Zemo hates super soldiers. He also knows a lot about super soldiers. The Flagsmashers are super soldiers. Ergo, we need Zemo’s help. But also, Zemo was the reason why the Avengers broke up. That man should stay in jail. But that dynamic between Zemo, Sam, and Bucky, I did not see that coming!
Mon: Same. I was definitely surprised but it really worked. Recasting Zemo as this rich Baron kind of made sense. Because he's not just rich, he is very cultured, he's very smart, he's very intelligent, in every scene that you see him, he's always the smartest guy in the room. Which is kind of annoying because he's the villain. He's also the kind of person who did really bad things because he was in a very bad place, and he had the facility to do it. I don't think at any point the writing makes us think that we can forgive this man. However, he is a means to an end, which is something that Bucky reiterates later on as well, but he's also really a fun character to hang out with, and he's really charming. They were really smart in bringing Zemo back and using him kinda as a plot device but also to bring some much needed levity to the show.
Ron: What I also liked about him being Baron Zemo in the show was that it retroactively explained how he managed to do everything that he did in Civil War. Because Zemo spends two years tracking Bucky, keeping an eye on the Avengers, and there's no way he could have done that if he didn't have money. I remember when we were watching it, we were like, how has he been able to do all this? Like he's traveling around the world, he's learning these languages. How's it possible for somebody who's just an ordinary person to have saved up that much money? So, now it makes sense. But it doesn't take away the fact that when the battle in Sokovia happened, he did lose his family, so his need for vengeance kind of made sense. It's just that at the end of it the Avengers did break up. And Thanos would not have won had Zemo not won.
Mon: Right. This is so true. We're definitely always going to fight Zemo’s corner, because way too many people ignore the fact that he was a very successful, very smart, villain.
Ron: I think among the fans who love villains like Loki. I mean, Loki is great. We love that character, of course. But you don't need to be as grandiose or as flamboyant as Loki to make a difference. Zemo was very quiet about it. He was just an ordinary guy. That's why he was successful. You don't think that a regular guy is going to be able to break up the Avengers. But he was meticulous about it. He was very determined. And he got what he wanted. So, it’s interesting after all that to see him back here and Bucky springs him from jail. And you can never trust him, but he also doesn't do anything terrible.
Mon: Yeah, I mean, he shoots one scientist because he's the only person who knows how to make super-soldier serum, which I completely understand, because Zemo really hates super soldiers, so of course, he wants to make sure that there is no possibility of anybody making the serum after the scientist. In general, it seemed like throughout the course of this episode, every time Zemo had a chance to escape, he didn't. He always came back. Of course, it's a good thing he did because otherwise we would never have been introduced to MCU Madripoor, which has got to be everybody's favorite MCU destination now.
Ron: Madripoor has a long history in the Marvel Comics. It’s usually associated with the X-Men. So, a lot of people were excited thinking that this means that the X-Men will be coming. Now, both WandaVision and The Falcon and the Winter Soldier have kinda hinted at the X-Men somewhere. But they still don't have definitive proof. On the one hand, people are like, we've had so many X-Men movies, and so many of them sucked. Maybe, just let it go. On the other hand, we don't want the MCU to be like, we’ll dip into the X-Men pot, just take some of those stories, those locations, those characters. But let's not actually do anything with the X-Men. I hope that they don't do that. Maybe they are paving the path for the X-Men’s final arrival into the MCU.
Mon: I think the Marvel executives are going to be really smart about how they use the X-Men, and how they introduce the X-Men. Because they have this 20-year knowledge of where the X-Men went right, where they went wrong. They are sussing out the fan reaction. They already have the phase four slate for the MCU. They already have Fantastic Four lined up. They're not gonna thrust the X-Men on us. Not so fast. They're gonna wait for an opening. So, I know, we’re all excited, but what they’re doing right now is that they're giving us a feel of the Marvel Comic universe through these screen properties, but they're eking it out. I think they're being really smart.
Ron: Yeah, I guess so. I think the Madripoor setting was really exciting. However, I was really disappointed that Marvel went the same route as so many properties before it and had this extremely Southeast-Asian aesthetic, and there was not a single Southeast-Asian person in sight in Madripoor. Now, this has been a problem for a really long time, from Blade Runner to Firefly—euggh—in 2021, to have a Marvel property do that, that was really frustrating. I know a lot of people are upset. Whenever we do return to Madripoor, hopefully they will have more people who are actually from Southeast-Asia.
Otherwise, the setting was really exciting. It was quite different from what we've seen in the MCU. It was quite rugged and a bit scary, a bit quirky. That drink that Sam had to drink. Very brave of him. But Zemo was completely in his element over there, and that was an interesting sight to see, because he wasn't really in charge on all this while. But yeah, the outfits? Hilarious.
Mon: What I liked about it is that Zemo’s in charge, but he sort of knows when to defer to both Sam and Bucky. But also, the way Sam and Bucky fall in line with what Zemo is doing because this is his area of expertise. Sam is dressed in this flamboyant outfit because he's pretending to be some other guy, the Smiling Tiger. [laughs] As Sam says, even his name sucks. He's apparently wearing heels, which is really hilarious. I really wish we'd been able to see how high his heels were because he can't run in them. And Bucky he has to pretend to be the Winter Soldier again and a Winter Soldier who is working for Zemo. I just really like the entire feel of it because it's really quite uncomfortable knowing that Zemo’s they guy in charge, and Sam and Bucky are quite helpless. But you also know that Zemo can't really push his boundaries too much because he's at their mercy, too. So, this amazing little dynamic between these three characters really brought this entire episode to life. There was so much hype after this episode because people were kind of in love with the whole aesthetic, and the whole feel of it, which we haven't really had in the MCU that much. There's an intensity but also a levity. They really played it well.
And then of course, we finally meet Sharon Carter, who's been on the run, and is now living in Madripoor. She's kind of exiled there, her family don't know where she is. But she still helps Sam and Bucky, which is great. We see her living in Hightown. She's living it up. She's got all these art pieces which she's selling to her ‘buyers’. Of course, we find out so much more about Sharon later on.
She gets this awesome action sequence. And I have to say, it is such a surprise. When Sharon leads the three guys to meet the scientist who has the super-soldier serum, she's the only one on the outside, and there are goons after goons coming at her. And she is just knocking them dead. She's pretty brutal, which is kind of scary, because we have not seen that level of brutality in the MCU proper. We're not talking about the Netflix stuff which has its moment. She's very obviously shooting people and really harming them. But it was impressive to see a female character hold her own. She wasn't suddenly rescued by anyone. She wasn't asking for any help. She's just a one-person army; it was really impressive.
Ron: I think the reason why the fight scene also stood out was because Sharon really hasn't had that much to do in the MCU. She's been kind of pigeonholed into the love interest, who helps out, and it also shows us how much she's changed. The Sharon Carter that we see in The Falcon and the Winter Soldier is a different person from who she was in Winter Soldier, in Civil War. And she's hurting. She didn't get the pardons, the life that Sam and Bucky got. Winter Soldier, who changed the course of history, he gets a pardon. Sharon Carter, who was helped Steve Rogers help Bucky, no pardon.
Mon: Forgotten! Even worse! So, it really does make us wonder what these guys were all doing. Can we say the Avengers were just so depressed, so grief-stricken themselves that they forgot about the other people? Whoever wasn't in their vicinity in Wakanda was just forgotten? That’s the only thing I can think of. Like, why would Steve forget Peggy Carter's niece, his friend, maybe love-interest, who knows, why would you forget her? I mean the only thing I can think of is that Steve saw Bucky die, he didn't even see Sam die, he could, of course, assume that, and then that's it. He was just like okay, we lost, and he was just broken after that. That’s my only thought.
Ron: I can't really think of anything else as a reason. From what we saw in Endgame, it seemed like the Avengers kind of closed ranks and focused on the big problems, the major issues. Even with Ronin, Clint Barton was just going around the world decimating these cartels and Yakuza or whatever, and that was going on for a while. And it was only when they needed Clint to come in that they actually went to look for him. Until then, it was just like, oh, this is a problem. Should you be doing something about it? He's an Avenger who's killing people who had nothing to do with what's going on in the world. So, I feel like a lot of people did get left behind, and Sharon Carter, unfortunately, was one of them.
Mon: Yeah, it’s really disappointing.
Ron: So, I guess it's not surprising though that her trajectory ends up the way it does in this show.
Mon: Yeah, I agree with you.
Ron: We don't actually get to see much of that. And in ‘Power Broker’ it's not even mentioned. You don't even realize that there's something off about Sharon, you just feel bad. And Sam and Bucky also feel bad. Sam immediately says, I can do something, I can fix this. And that's great, because that's his immediate reaction. Most of this episode is just a little bit of fun, really.
Mon: Yeah, I will say that this episode is probably a favorite among a lot of people because it is just so much fun. I would say that it's probably the one with the most glaring writing issues. Because Bucky explaining to Sam how he broke Zemo out is very clever, but where did Bucky have the time to plant all the keys and the clues for Zemo to get out? Where was the time? There's also a lot of other small things. Things like Sam saying, oh, it happens in every action movie. Sam wouldn't need to say that because he was literally a soldier. So was Bucky. So was Sharon. While that's a really fun scene, and an extremely fun dialogue, it just doesn't make sense in the context of these characters. So yeah, there's just a few little things here and there but honestly, it's such a fun episode that you won't even notice it.
Ron: Yeah, I'm actually surprised that Zemo of all people bring so much levity to the show, because he was downright scary in Civil War. So, this is really, really unexpected but also extremely enjoyable.
Mon: And I like that Daniel Brühl doesn't play him all hamfisted. He's not trying to be a caricature or he's not trying to be a comedic character, he's just playing Zemo as Zemo. It's just that the reactions of Zemo, and the reactions to Zemo, are what bring the levity, so that way, the combination of the writing, directing, and the performances really works.
Ron: So then we move on to Episode 4.
Read the rest of the transcript in Part 2 here.